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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: rodhill on Wednesday 04 June 25 02:03 BST (UK)
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Hi, would it be possible to find a Thomas HILL born 1822 in the 1841 census for Shadwell?
Thomas was convicted in 1845 and sentenced to 7 years' transportation. He listed Shadwell as his native place. His occupation was a Painters labourer.
He stated he had an uncle, Robert HILL, at his native place. Would it also be possible to find Robert HILL born abt 1800? In both the 1841 and 1851 censuses, please
Any assistance would be most appreciated
Rod Hill
Tasmania AUS
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There is a Thomas Hill (possibly HALL or HOLL) aged 20 at Red Cow Lane Shadwell in 1841, cooper (looks like "cooper j", so probably journeyman cooper?).
HO107/703/14 pg23
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Thanks, much appreciated, but on his convict file it states he was a painter's labourer but will keep this one in mind . does it give any other family or members of the household
Rod
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Looking at it again, I'm not sure that it is HILL, maybe HALL? There are no others of that name at that address.
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much appreciated
Rod
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Are you looking at the Thomas Hill who married Mary Ann Coglin / Coughlan in 1853 Hobart?
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I know this doesn't quite tally with the Criminal Register (slightly different date of conviction and age), but is this your Thomas?
"CENTRAL CRIMINAL COURT - SATURDAY ...
Thomas Hill and William Smith, both 16, were found guilty of stealing pickles and other articles the property of James Brook. Smith was sentenced to be imprisoned nine months, and Hill, who had previously been convicted, to seven years' transportation."
Monday, Feb. 10, 1845
Publication: The Standard
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Yes That my great grandfather
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So he was born circa 1829 if he was 16 in 1845.
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Have you checked his age given on his previous convictions?
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The newspaper article is wrong Thomas HILL was 22 and Smith 20 in 1845 according to there court records
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PREVIOUS OFFENCES in England
Tried Old Bailey 30 Jan 1843
Stealing a pair of drawers goods of Thomas William BROWN of Ratcliff Hwy
aged 19 confined for 6 months
Tried Old Bailey 18 Sep 1843
stealing 9lbs leaden pipe value 6s goods of William THOMAS of King st Gravel Lane St Georges East
aged 19 Confided for Twelve months
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I looked at a lot of Thomas Hills c 1821 in Middlesex!
I did find this Family.
No Occp for Thomas but Fathers a Painter, Journeyman.
College St, St John Hackney, St John Hackney
William Hill 60 (age could be 40* feint image)
Ann Hill 40
Thomas Hill 17*****
Ann Hill 16
Jane Hill 14
William Hill 12
John Hill 9
Edward Hill 6
James Hill 7
Sarah Hill 1
At this stage cant't see them in 1851 to see if Thomas is still in England
Trish :)
EDIT not him.
1851 and Ann is widowed.
Thomas living next door with Wife Emma.
M/C confirms his Father as William a Painter
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Looks like you’re on the right track with Thomas Hill. There’s no Thomas or Robert Hill in Shadwell in 1841, but a strong lead points to Thomas as a “15”-year-old inmate in the Whitechapel Union Workhouse – remember ages were rounded down, so that could fit an 18-year-old. Also, his family likely lived in Ratcliff (Stepney), not Shadwell proper. No confirmed Robert Hill (~1800) was found in Shadwell in 1841 or 1851 either, but broader searches in Stepney, Limehouse, or Whitechapel might help. You might also try the Tasmanian convict records for more clues on Robert’s occupation or address.
FamilySearch: https://www.familysearch.org
Tasmanian Names Index: https://stors.tas.gov.au
Hi, would it be possible to find a Thomas HILL born 1822 in the 1841 census for Shadwell?
Thomas was convicted in 1845 and sentenced to 7 years' transportation. He listed Shadwell as his native place. His occupation was a Painters labourer.
He stated he had an uncle, Robert HILL, at his native place. Would it also be possible to find Robert HILL born abt 1800? In both the 1841 and 1851 censuses, please
Any assistance would be most appreciated
Rod Hill
Tasmania AUS
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Is there any way to check the 1841 census of Workhouse In The East, Old Gravel Lane, St George, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, England, to see if there is a Thomas Hill listed? or any other Hill's? I have a Robert Hill there, which I think could be Thomas's uncle. Does it give occupations
1841 Census
Name Robert Hill
Sex Male
Age 45
Birth Year (Estimated) 1796
Birthplace Middlesex
Residence Place Workhouse In The East Old Gravel Lane
Event Type Census
Event Date 1841
Event Place Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, England
Event Place (Original) St George, Tower Hamlets, Middlesex, England
Registration District St George, East
Household Identifier 107216
Book Number 4
Line Number 8
Page Number 16
Piece/Folio 696/11
Registration Number HO107
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Robert HILL, 45, pauper labourer, born in county.
There is a Robert HILL of the Workhouse aged 58 buried 28 Jan 1853 at St George.
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A Robert HILL in the Workhouse at St George in the East in 1851, aged 57, labourer, born St George, married.
HO107/1549/260 pg 27
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Possibly this family (all bracketed together) :-\ - admitted to the St George Workhouse in 1844:
Robert HILL (1794) - married
Elizabeth HILL (1808) - married
Matilda GREEN (1836) - bastard
Henry GREEN (1839) - bastard
"destitution after being ordered out by Board order".
Matilda and Henry possibly have mother Elizabeth GREEN (1803). They and some other children (eg William - 1838) appear to be in the workhouse at various times.
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A Robert HILL and Elizabeth GREEN on the same page for marriages at St George in the East Mar qtr 1844 (2/46).
Their marriage 5 Feb 1844, after banns:
Robert HILL, full age, bach, labourer. Father - Robert HILL, carman. Elizabeth GREEN, full age, spin. Father - William GREEN, engineer.
Both of St George in the East, both signed "x". Witnesses: Mary LEVY and John JOHNSON (both "x").
Modified to add:
Elizabeth (35) and Henry (2) GREEN are also in the St George in East Workhouse in 1841.
HO107/696/4/5 pg5
Matilda GREEN (5) is in the Tooting Infant Parochial Establishment (school)
HO107/1068/6/28 pg18
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Thomas Hill is a very common name, and I think care is needed or you will be "finding" the wrong family. Careful examination of all documents is needed.
Are you looking at the Thomas Hill who married Mary Ann Coglin / Coughlan in 1853 Hobart?
The marriage permission for this couple records the groom, Thos Hill as "came free" (ie. not a convict).
The marriage register records Thomas as a butcher, born 1829, unable to sign his name.
The convict record for the Thomas Hill per "Marion" in 1845 (that you are looking at), records him as a labourer, who can read and write, and you say born 1822.
There are some discrepancies that you need to consider, and account for.