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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: sft456 on Sunday 01 June 25 10:52 BST (UK)

Title: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: sft456 on Sunday 01 June 25 10:52 BST (UK)
Hi

Mary Ann ASHBY was b poss 18.9.1815 Marylebone, London, dau of poss Thomas Ashby & Jane Roberts m 19.5.1808 St Mary, Marylebone, London

In 1851 as Mary Ann BATTY, she was a widow living in Marylebone, London, with sisters, Catherine, Frances & Dina ASHBY - all Dressmakers; the 3 sisters were single

As such, despite a good deal of research, we can't find a m for her with a Mr Batty

In 1854 (no full date unfortunately) she m (2) William Taylor Haines at St Margaret, Westminster.....

This may be Mary Ann in 1841 as Mary Ann ASHBY, residing in Grafton Place, St Pancras, aged 25, with a Joshua & Martha Thonston - no details on Family Search

Any assistance as to her 1st m will be gratefully received - did this m result in any children?

sft456
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: PaulineJ on Sunday 01 June 25 11:15 BST (UK)
She MAY have been wed twice by 1851. have you looked for candidate deaths for Mr Batty?

if not, are these 2 deaths & one birth at all relevant?
BATTY, CHARLES       20 
GRO Reference: 1843  J Quarter in POPLAR UNION  Volume 02  Page 232

BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     ASHBY 
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 03  Page 289
BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     0 
GRO Reference: 1842  M Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01  Page 177
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 01 June 25 11:21 BST (UK)
I would suggest getting a copy of the 1854 marriage to confirm her age, status and father’s name.

What surname did she marry under?
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 01 June 25 11:24 BST (UK)
You are in luck the marriage is online

17 August 1854

She is of full age and a widow

Father Thomas Ashby deceased master baker

Witnesses Thomas Ashby and Frances Ashby
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: LizzieL on Sunday 01 June 25 12:45 BST (UK)

BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     ASHBY 
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 03  Page 289
BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     0 
GRO Reference: 1842  M Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01  Page 177

Transcript on FindMyPast
Charles Ashly (sic ) Batty
bapt 27 Jun 1841  Paddington. s/o John and Marianne
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: LizzieL on Sunday 01 June 25 12:48 BST (UK)
Marriage Kensington 23 Jun 1835, John Batty and Mary Ann Ashly
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: sft456 on Sunday 01 June 25 13:22 BST (UK)
Thanks

Whether she m once or twice, this must have happened between 1841 if that is her in 1841 as Mary Ann ASHBY aged 25? and 1851 when she was a widow as BATTY. She m W T Haines as Batty

We have checked for 2 possible ms by linking her name Ashby with others in the St Pancras area 1841-1851, then linking poss 1st ms with Batty in the same area, same date - Nothing

If she was not recorded on the 1841 C then she may have m before 1841
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: LizzieL on Sunday 01 June 25 13:35 BST (UK)

BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     ASHBY 
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 03  Page 289
BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     0 
GRO Reference: 1842  M Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01  Page 177

There's also a Thomas Edward Batty mmn Ashby  birth reg Marylebone Q1 1843
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: LizzieL on Sunday 01 June 25 13:47 BST (UK)

BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     ASHBY 
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 03  Page 289
BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     0 
GRO Reference: 1842  M Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01  Page 177

Transcript on FindMyPast
Charles Ashly (sic ) Batty
bapt 27 Jun 1841  Paddington. s/o John and Marianne

Found image on Ancestry, middle name looks more like ASHBY to me.
The child was born on May 29th 1841, so should bo in 1841 census. John Batty was a plasterer
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: amondg on Sunday 01 June 25 14:11 BST (UK)
Her father Thomas Ashby died 1844 age 59 reg. Kensington Buried 10 June 1844 Paddington

He left a will dated 5 March 1844 proved 27 July 1844. Image is on ancestry, he was of 134 St. Alban's Street, - Baker.
He only names his wife Jane, she is also the executrix.
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 01 June 25 15:39 BST (UK)
If she married in 1835 then she would also be Batty in 1841 wouldn't she?  When did John Batty pass away?
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 01 June 25 15:54 BST (UK)

BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     ASHBY 
GRO Reference: 1841  J Quarter in KENSINGTON  Volume 03  Page 289
BATTY, CHARLES  ASHBY     0 
GRO Reference: 1842  M Quarter in MARYLEBONE  Volume 01  Page 177


Transcript on FindMyPast
Charles Ashly (sic ) Batty
bapt 27 Jun 1841  Paddington. s/o John and Marianne

Found image on Ancestry, middle name looks more like ASHBY to me.
The child was born on May 29th 1841, so should bo in 1841 census. John Batty was a plasterer

There's also a Thomas Edward Batty mmn Ashby  birth reg Marylebone Q1 1843

For info. have added the images for their Baptisms - edit to add image burial CAB
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 01 June 25 16:05 BST (UK)
If she married in 1835 then she would also be Batty in 1841 wouldn't she? 

When did John Batty pass away?

It looks as if John died in 1843 - address on burial record is the same as Charles Ashby Batty

Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 01 June 25 16:39 BST (UK)
There’s also a burial of TEB - abode North Street, St Marylebone

Thomas Edward Batty Age 5 months
Burial 24 May 1843 Saint Mary, Paddington Green: Westminster
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: sft456 on Sunday 01 June 25 17:06 BST (UK)
Thanks again, confusing

In conclusion are you suggesting Mary Ann Ashby m John Batty? 23 Jun 1835 Kensington as John Batty and Mary Ann ASHLY  (he d Mar qtr 1843 Marylebone) a plasterer

sons:

Charles Ashby Batty bap to John & Marianne! d 1842 Marylebone aged 0
& Thomas Edward Batty b 1843 also to John & Marianne! Batty d 1843 aged 6 months,
No children soon after 1835? until 1841 6 years later

If (assuming all this is correct) and she lost her husband and 2 children in 2/3 years perhaps that's why there was no mentionof kids in Mary Ann's later life as Mrs Haines or in 1851 when she was living with her 3 sisters.
But no mention of them as a family in 1841 C?

Who was Charles Batty d 1843 aged 20? b 1823, 8 years younger than Mary Ann b 1815

Did she m in 1835 or was she still single as in 1841 C?
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 01 June 25 17:42 BST (UK)
Did she m in 1835 or was she still single as in 1841 C?

That 1841 entry shows as Mary Ann Ashley age 26 bn in County.
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 01 June 25 17:47 BST (UK)
Marriage Kensington 23 Jun 1835, John Batty and Mary Ann Ashly

Perhaps LizzieL can give more details - I've not found this on Anc*y

I don't know if these details from the death certificate will be of help to you

informant on Charles d/c was a Catherine ASHBY (image year 1842 not 1843  ::))

informant on John's d/c ??? BATTY - could it read Adam???

EDIT to add you might want to check the  1843 death of Thomas Edward Batty to see who the informant might be :-\

Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 01 June 25 17:48 BST (UK)
That 1841 entry shows as Mary Ann Ashley age 26 bn in County.

Joshua Thurston and his wife Martha are still in Grafton Place in 1851, also resident is Mary Ann Ashley age 35 bn Shoreditch
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 01 June 25 17:59 BST (UK)
I've tried looking for John Batty, occ plasterer  on the 1841 census but I've had no luck  on Anc*y ???  Perhaps someone can look at the address North Street, St Marylebone  on F M P to see whose living there in 1841
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 02 June 25 00:12 BST (UK)
Her father Thomas Ashby died 1844 age 59 reg. Kensington Buried 10 June 1844 Paddington

He left a will dated 5 March 1844 proved 27 July 1844.
Image is on ancestry, he was of 134 St. Alban's Street, - Baker.
He only names his wife Jane, she is also the executrix.

I just noticed Thomas Ashby’s address on the 1844 burial record it’s 134 St Alban’s Pl., Paddington that is the same address as Catharine Ashby present at the 1842 death of 8 month old Charles Ashby Batty

EDIT to add

Where are John & Mary Ann BATTY in 1841?

Do you have Thomas & Jane ASHBY and their daughters Catherine & Dinah on 1841 census?
Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 02 June 25 09:31 BST (UK)
Had to know who the informant was on Thomas d/c

Informant was Jane ASHBY present at death 19 North Street, Thomas son of John BATTY, deceased

So it does look as if mother Marianne on the baptisms of Charles Ashby Batty and Thomas Edward Batty is the daughter of Thomas & Jane ASHBY.

Are there any pieces missing from 1841 census?

We have deaths at 
18 North Street Charles Ashby Batty on    29th January 1842, informant Catherine ASHBY
19 North Street John Batty on                 12th January 1843   informant ??? BATTY
19 North Street Thomas Edward Batty on 18th May 1843       informant Jane ASHBY

Must have been a very upsetting and distressing time for Mary Ann  :'(

Title: Re: ASHBY - BATTY marriage, did it happen?
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 02 June 25 12:09 BST (UK)
18 & 19 North Street, Marylebone in 1841 are at HO107/Piece 680 bk 12 f15 page 23

They are houses in Multiple occupation but I can't see any Ashby's or Batty's.  Maybe the 1841 birth certificate would give an address if they moved to North Street after the child was born