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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: murray0112 on Saturday 31 May 25 14:15 BST (UK)
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I am looking for any information/tips for where to search next for ancestors by the name of Murray who lived in Newry at least as early as 1840, and in my direct line had emigrated to Scotland by 1898. The last date of residence in Newry I have for certain is 1894, as per the record of death for their second eldest daughter, Catherine. I have managed to find quite a lot more than I expected, as I had only a name and birth place for my great grandather's father, but I have hit a wall around 1840 and I am wondering whether there is anywhere else to look, or if I should just accept that the records are either lost to time or never existed. Here is what I have so far:
Griffith's valuation places a John Murray in High Street, Newry, in tenement housing (I believe in 1846?). There is a James Murray born in August of 1844 to John Murray and Matilda Haffy in the diocese of Dromore, followed by a sister Matilda on July 19th, 1846, and potentially a Robert in 1850, and Patrick in 1853, although I cannot be totally certain as their mothers surname is recorded as Haughey, Mattaffe and MacCaffre, and I am too hopelessly inexperienced with name variants for it to be beyond a reasonable doubt. James marries Catherine Treanor in 1868, and together thay have 10 children over 20-ish years: Mary (1869), Catherine (1871), John (1873), Matilda (1875), Bridget (1878), Alice (1881-1883), Alice (1884), James (1886), and twins Maggie and Sarah in 1889. Mary and Catherine both died of TB in 1893 and 1894 respectively, and baby Alice died of scarlatina aged two. Matilda, James, Alice, Sarah, and John are all accounted for with mother Catherine in Scotland after 1898, however Bridget, James Sr., and Maggie are missing. At least one of the girls is living as per the 1911 Scotland census, which states Catherine has had 10 children and 6 are living.
I am relatively certain this is all the same family, as Catherine Treanor lists 36 Chapel street as her residence/place of birth for most of her children and James Murray, Shoemaker as their father. John is born on High Street, and Bridget on Kilmorey Street, but she is registered by a Matilda Murray of High Street. Matilda Murray of High Street dies in 1890 aged 70, and the death is reported by a Catherine Murray, daughter in law, of 11 Chapel Street, the address listed as the birthplace of the twins. The 1901 census records a John Murray aged 45 in Chapel Street with children John, Matilda, and Patrick, so I am thinking perhaps relatives? but unfortunately anyone distinctive enough to determine a relationship is dead or is in Scotland by then. I cannot find any marriages for John Murray and Matilda Haffy/Haughey/variant of, so no hint as to who their parents may be to determine birth dates, no deaths for the elder John, Bridget, Maggie, or James Sr, and nothing on Catherine Treanor bar the name James for her father, his occupation as a Watchman, and that she may have had a sister Mary and a mother Catherine. I am also wondering if they came over during the Plantation of Ulster, or if they originate from Ireland. They are Roman Catholics, if that helps, but I am very very inexperienced with this kind of thing, and am totally reliant on records available online as I am from Australia.
I am so so very sorry to be so long winded, but I am very deep down this rabbit hole and I fear I've spent so long staring at the name Murray that I wonder if perhaps I simply I cannot see the forest for the trees, and that someone else might be able to point me in the right direction. Thank you very much in advance for any assistance anyone might be able to provide :)
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Hello
I am assisting my wife Alice in researching her ancestry. Her grandmother was Alice Murray who was born in Newry in 1884 and who died in Glasgow in December 1972.
It would be great to connect/correspond and help each other with our research.
Thank you
Tom O’Connor
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Her grandmother was Alice Murray who was born in Newry in 1884....
Here's the URL link-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1884/02706/1996527.pdf
Her father James Murray, a shoemaker. Mother Catherine MMN Trainor.
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....and twins Maggie and Sarah in 1889.
URL
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1889/02467/1916452.pdf
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... The 1901 census records a John Murray aged 45 in Chapel Street with children John, Matilda, and Patrick, so I am thinking perhaps relatives?
Looking at that 1901 Ireland census return …
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/South_Ward_Newry/Chapel_Street/1247783/
… I can see a birth for a Matilda Murray at Castle Street in Newry in September 1877 to parents John Murray, a shoemaker, and Ellen McCall, the informant was a Matilda Murray of High Street:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1877/03002/2100445.pdf
When John Murray married Ellen McCaul at Newry in July 1865, his father was stated as John Murray, also a shoemaker:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1865/11580/8261101.pdf
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I'll mention the following three things for you to consider.
Firstly, the "scotlandspeople" baptism index shows a Catherine Murray baptised (RC) on 12 April 1838, parents recorded as John Murray and Matilda McHaffie, the parish was Glasgow, St. Andrew's. I couldn't readily see a marriage for them.
Secondly, there was a marriage in St. Peter's RC Church in Belfast on 30 March 1900 between a widowed bootmaker called Thomas Murray, son of a shoemaker named John Murray, to an Ellen Savage:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10342/5765230.pdf
On it's own, of no great import... except that the RootsIreland subscription website has a transcript of the church record of that same marriage which also identifies Thomas' mother - namely one "Matilda Mahaffey". When I go looking for Thomas a year later in the 1901 Ireland Census, the following looks like a possibility, with Thomas' birth indicated c. 1846 in Scotland:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls/Cyprus_Street/951042/
The Thomas in that census return died on 7 December 1908 with a reported age (by his wife) indicating birth c. 1851:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05481/4534962.pdf
Thirdly, the following item in the Newry RC registers is difficult to read, but if you fiddle with the light and contrast, you should be able to make out the baptism of a Jane Murray on 28 February 1848 for parents John Murray and Matilda Mehaffy, sponsors Thomas [something] and Mary Gallagher:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633289#page/31/mode/1up (left page)
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... Secondly, there was a marriage in St. Peter's RC Church in Belfast on 30 March 1900 between a widowed bootmaker called Thomas Murray, son of a shoemaker named John Murray, to an Ellen Savage:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10342/5765230.pdf
On it's own, of no great import... except that the RootsIreland subscription website has a transcript of the church record of that same marriage which also identifies Thomas' mother - namely one "Matilda Mahaffey". When I go looking for Thomas a year later in the 1901 Ireland Census, the following looks like a possibility, with Thomas' birth indicated c. 1846 in Scotland:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls/Cyprus_Street/951042/
The Thomas in that census return died on 7 December 1908 with a reported age (by his wife) indicating birth c. 1851:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05481/4534962.pdf
Just to try and work back Thomas, who was described as a widower at the time of his marriage to Ellen Savage in 1900 at St. Peter's in Belfast, I have found a death of a Sarah Murray at Plevna Street in June 1896, wife of Thomas Murray a shoemaker, at a reported age (by Thomas) of 55:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1896/05901/4674447.pdf
Looking for a marriage for Thomas Murray and a Sarah, the one that stands out is the following one in the Newry RC parish registers that took place on 6 November 1858, which would place Thomas' birth a bit earlier again, say 1840 or before:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633290#page/125/mode/1up (right page)
Post introduction of civil birth registration in 1864, there are a number of children registered as born to Thomas Murray, bootmaker/shoemaker in Newry (usually High Street) and Sarah Downey:
- Sarah born in September 1864:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1864/03609/2331660.pdf
- Thomas born in January 1869:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1869/03413/2251978.pdf
- John James born in September 1871:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1871/03289/2205572.pdf
- Patrick born in May 1874:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1874/03141/2152048.pdf
- Marianne in May 1877:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1877/03015/2104987.pdf
- James in June 1882:
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1882/02786/2022985.pdf
So for now I'm comfortable with the idea that Thomas was a brother of the James Murray who married Catherine Treanor/Trainor.