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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 28 May 25 16:06 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 28 May 25 16:06 BST (UK)
Legal and Public Notices. ROBERTS—PETTIGREU. WILL JOHN ROBERTS, formerly of Brymbo collier,  who's sister, Ann, married John Pettigreu, moulder, kindly communicate to L., Advertiser Office

Wrexham Advertiser 27 June 1884

Ann Roberts married John Pettegain on 24 Jan 1849 in Wrexham ,her father was John Roberts stonemason.
John Pettigain / Pettigrew was a moulder residence Brymbo, father Gavan Pettigain was a miller.

John Pettigrew bapt 10 March 1851 , also the same day William Gavan Pettigrew bapt at Brymbo and Burial Date   22 Mar 1851

   Anne Pettygrew buried aged 25 on 1 Dec 1852 at Brymbo

John Pettigrew  remarried
Marriage Date   4 Oct 1854
Parish   Manchester, St Mary, St Denys and St George
Father's Name   Govan Pettigrew
Spouse's Name   Margaret Kay
Spouse's Father's Name   Adam Lester

1851 Piece   2502  Folio   277  Page number   14
John Pettigrew   28   Head b   Cumberworth, Lancashire, England
Ann Pettigrew 23
Jane Pettigrew 2 Daughter
John Pettigrew 5 Mo Son
Jane Roberts 68 Lodger

That's all I can find, where did they go after John`s marriage in 1854, and the question is why is someone looking for John Roberts over 30 years after her marriage .

Feel free to have a go. Apologies it`s not in correct order.

Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 28 May 25 16:31 BST (UK)
Hope i'm reading your post right. If this is who your looking for after 1854, if so then I will carry on searching.

1861 census
Piece   2897
Folio   114
Page number   13

SS

added
John Pettigrew 36 Head
Margaret Pettigrew   32   Wife
Jane Pettigrew 12 Daughter*
John Pettigrew 10 Son**
Anne Pettigrew 8 Daughter***
William Pettigrew 5 Son****

* 1871 ref 4039 4 3--married 1871 Francis Loftus, 1881 ref 3926 14 22

** 1871 ref 4001 16 26--married Martha Jane McCabe 1876 (Jane Loftus a witness, father John Pettigrew "Iron Moulder"

*** died aged 11 in 1864 at same address as 1861 census.

**** 1871 ref 4000 160 24

John Pettigrew Snr was born c 1826 his mmn was Stirling

1841 census --Stane, Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Janet   Pettegrew   45 b in county
James   Pettegrew   20 b in county
Margaret   Pettegrew   20 b in county
John   Pettegrew   15 b in county occupation "Moulder"
Gavin   Pettegrew   10 b in county
Janet   Pettegrew   8 b in county
Elisabeth   Pettegrew   5 b in county
Janet   Forrest 20 b in county
Jane   Forrest Jr    1 b Scotland
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 28 May 25 20:10 BST (UK)
Thanks but I can't find them in 1861.
Where are they living,  and some places of birth may help.

Looking again at John Pettigrews birth place in 1851 it does look like Lanarkshire.

It's a mystery as to who is looking for John Roberts so far. 🤔
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 28 May 25 20:15 BST (UK)
1861

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7D6-FSM?lang=en

1851 place of birth reads Cambusnethan, Lanarkshire.

SS
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Wednesday 28 May 25 22:18 BST (UK)
The usual reason for ads like this is that someone has died and they need to find relatives to pass on a legacy or following intestacy laws. Do you know when John P died?
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 29 May 25 09:22 BST (UK)
Still not answering the question but a "faint" 1871 census ref for John Pettigrew?

3937 9 11----Crown Street (Millstone), Great Bolton, Bolton, Lancashire, England

Thomas Greenwood   Head   - 48   Innkeeper b Horwich, Lancashire
Elizabeth Greenwood   Wife   -   43   - b Ince Wigan, Lancashire
Elizabeth Greenwood   Daughter   -15   Cotton weaver b Darcy Lever, Lancashire
Walter Greenwood   Son   - 11   Scholar Bolton, Lancashire
Charles Reynolds   Boarder   - 34 Brewer Manchester, Lancashire
Alfred Reynolds   Boarder   -   11   Scholar   Berwick, Lancashire
John Petyouin   Boarder   -   48 Iron Moulder   bScotland

SS
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 29 May 25 18:00 BST (UK)
So far I have found .
Name   Ann Pettegrew Age   11
Birth Date   abt 1853 Burial Date   3 Nov 1864
Burial Place   Hulme, St George, Lancashire, England
Father   John Pettegrew
Mother   Margaret Pettegrew

1871  with a William Leather.
William Pettigrew Age   15 Relation   Boarder
Where born   Openshaw, Lancashire, England
Civil parish   Hulme
Ecclesiastical parish   St Georges
County/Island   Lancashire

No death found for Margaret Pettigrew up to 1920 with soundalike, no death for John Pettigrew either.

1871 from SS . This does make a good match
Thomas Greenwood   Head   - 48   Innkeeper b Horwich, Lancashire
Elizabeth Greenwood   Wife   -   43   - b Ince Wigan, Lancashire
Elizabeth Greenwood   Daughter   -15   Cotton weaver b Darcy Lever, Lancashire
Walter Greenwood   Son   - 11   Scholar Bolton, Lancashire
Charles Reynolds   Boarder   - 34 Brewer Manchester, Lancashire
Alfred Reynolds   Boarder   -   11   Scholar   Berwick, Lancashire
John Petyouin   Boarder   -   48 Iron Moulder   b Scotland

 after this nothing  positive, not doing well  ???
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: willsy on Thursday 29 May 25 21:43 BST (UK)
Have just found a reference to a Margaret Pettigeu age 40 died 30th Sep 1869, Hulme

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tsn/

Death is from a workhouse register

Margaret Pettigeu, Withington Workhouse, Chorlton, cause of death abscesses.

Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Friday 30 May 25 08:16 BST (UK)
Well done.
I should have said that in the 1851 census the children were born  Brymbo,
This is just outside Wrexham, Denbighshire.

John Pettigrew28Head
Ann Pettigrew23Wife
Jane Pettigrew2Daughter
John Pettigrew5 MoSon

1861 they are entered as b Manchester.





Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: softly softly on Friday 30 May 25 08:46 BST (UK)
willsy, that was an excellent find, well done.

SS
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: softly softly on Friday 30 May 25 08:55 BST (UK)
Death of John Pettigrew.

SS
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: softly softly on Friday 30 May 25 12:40 BST (UK)
Further info only. Looking closely at John's death in 1878 record's he is a widower of Margaret Rat****. Margaret from the little we know was aged 40 in 1869, and 32 in 1861 census born Warrington c1829.

She married for seemingly the 3RD time in 4th October 1854 to John Pettigrew. Her father Adam Lester--Basket Maker

Her 2ND marriage as a widow (Margaret Ratcliffe) 26th September 1852 was to Christopher Kay. Her father Adam Leicester-occ Basket Maker.

1St marriage--trying to establish if indeed there was one.

PETTIGREW, WILLIAM       mmn RATCLIFFE 
GRO Reference: 1855  M Quarter in CHORLTON  Volume 08C  Page 473

SS

added, Do not personally think there was a 1st marriage.

1851 census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGYJ-216?lang=en


SS
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: softly softly on Friday 30 May 25 14:41 BST (UK)
Adam Leicester married Betty Ratcliff 10th Feb 1834 Grappenhall, Cheshire

Baptism of Margaret Ratcliffe 7.6.1829 Warrington, mother Betsy--no father recorded.

1841 census--Church Street, Warrington, Lancashire & Cheshire, England

Adam   Leicester   Male   35   1806   Lancashire, England  basket maker
Betsey   Leicester   Female   30   1811   Lancashire, England
John   Leicester   Male   10   1831   Lancashire, England
Ellen   Leicester   Female   0   1841   Lancashire, England
Margaret   Ratcliffe   Female   12   1829   Lancashire, England
John   Ratcliffe   Male   9   1832   Lancashire, England
----------------

1851 census--image for surname looks more like Leicester

Adam   Lancaster   Head   Married   Male   47   1804   Basket maker   Penketh, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth   Lancaster   Wife   Married   Female   48   1803   Wife   Lancashire, England
Mary Ann   Lancaster   Daughter   -   Female   10   1841   Scholar   Warrington, Lancashire, England
John   Ratclieff   Lodger   Unmarried   Male   19   1832   Labourer   Warrington, Lancashire, England

-----------------

1861

Adam   Suiter   Head   Married   Male   58   1803   Basket maker   Warrington, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth   Suiter   Wife   Married   Female   53   1808   -   Warrington, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann   Suiter   Daughter   -   Female   10   1851   Scholar   Warrington, Lancashire, England

-----------

1871 census

Mary   Fisher   Head   -   Female   35   1836   Fustian cutter   Warrington, Lancashire, England
James   Fisher   Son   -   Male   12   1859   Scholar   Warrington, Lancashire, England
Mary Ellen   Fisher   Daughter   -   Female   3   1868   Scholar   Warrington, Lancashire, England
Adam   Leicester   Lodger   -   Male   68   1803   Basket maker   Warrington, Lancashire, England
Mary Ann   Leicester   Daughter   -   Female   20   1851   Weaver   Warrington, Lancashire, England
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: willsy on Friday 30 May 25 20:43 BST (UK)
Thank wilcoxon and SS; have been looking and I don't think there was a first marriage either.
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: willsy on Friday 30 May 25 21:55 BST (UK)
I think this is a record for son William, admitted to the same workhouse as Margaret, discharged 21st May 1874 age 18

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tso/

Death reg. for a William Pettigrem 1875 age 19

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tsp/





Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 31 May 25 06:07 BST (UK)
do you have age of ann roberts on marriage and names of witnesses

how many john roberts stonemasons are there on  any 1841 census with an Ann or john of  appropriate age to be his child
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 31 May 25 09:10 BST (UK)
Thanks for sticking with this, remember it isn't a relative but I was curious about the advert.
There is no 1841 census for Wrexham area.

Wittnesses Edwd Lovatt ? John Shefton his mark.
They married in St Giles which is in Wrexham. Both full age.
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 31 May 25 09:22 BST (UK)
An Edward Lovatt was a Parish Clerk. Bapt 1826 buried 1886.  Noted as Clerk of this parish for 34 years
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 31 May 25 09:36 BST (UK)
A John Shefton married Hannah Griffiths in Brymbo 1835. Banns only,
1851 they are in Abbot Street. Wrexham.  Shephton. Wine merchant
Also in Abbot Street is Edward Lovatt clerk. Father is a publican.

Possibly no relation.  Abbot Street is very close to St Giles. 
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 31 May 25 09:43 BST (UK)
Ann Roberts

BAPTISM DATE:11 Jun 1827
BAPTISM PLACE:Wrexham, Denbighshire, Wales
FATHER:John. Mason
MOTHER:Jane
Abode Brymbo.
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 31 May 25 13:32 BST (UK)
John Roberts / Jane Jones .
marriage banns Brymbo.18 Feb 1827

John Roberts, bachelor ,  Mason married  Jane Jones widow   in Wrexham 9 Mar 1827
John signed Jane X
Witnesses John Hughes / Jane Hughes both X

Not finding a definite baptism for John Roberts brother  of Ann.
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 31 May 25 13:51 BST (UK)
1851 Piece   2502  Folio   277  Page number   14
John Pettigrew   28   Head b   Cumberworth, Lancashire, England
Ann Pettigrew 23
Jane Pettigrew 2 Daughter
John Pettigrew 5 Mo Son
Jane Roberts 68 Lodger

10 April 1858
A Jane Roberts was buried at Brymbo  aged 75.

Not finding a definate  burial for John Roberts .

Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: willsy on Saturday 31 May 25 22:59 BST (UK)
Just running this by you, Jane Roberts is as age 68 and with not finding a baptism for John, do you think John could be a Jones?

However, I did find a marriage of a John Roberts to Mary Ann Taylor, Wrexham 1839

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tsr/

Father John Roberts mason
Wit. John Roberts, Jane Evans

Collier on marriage, born Brymbo and Collier on census returns, birth 1821/1822

1851 Census, Brymbo John, Mary, Ed, Jane

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tss/

Jane Q1 Wrexham 1847 MMN Taylor

Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 01 June 25 01:51 BST (UK)
looks like wilcoxon is on right lines researching the mother more could lead to a breakthrough . her grave or her marriage & maiden name .

dont think john could be a jones unless mother married twice + he took on stepfathers name .or was born to a single mother  before his parents were married

the Will specifically names him as john ROBERTS

dont think youve answered my questions re ann & pettigrews marriage certificate + witnesses

Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 01 June 25 08:03 BST (UK)
looks like wilcoxon is on right lines researching the mother more could lead to a breakthrough . her grave or her marriage & maiden name .

dont think john could be a jones unless mother married twice + he took on stepfathers name .or was born to a single mother  before his parents were married

the Will specifically names him as john ROBERTS

dont think youve answered my questions re ann & pettigrews marriage certificate + witnesses


Thanks for sticking with this, remember it isn't a relative but I was curious about the advert.
There is no 1841 census for Wrexham area.

Wittnesses Edwd Lovatt ? John Shefton his mark.
They married in St Giles which is in Wrexham. Both full age.
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 01 June 25 08:04 BST (UK)
looks like wilcoxon is on right lines researching the mother more could lead to a breakthrough . her grave or her marriage & maiden name .

dont think john could be a jones unless mother married twice + he took on stepfathers name .or was born to a single mother  before his parents were married

the Will specifically names him as john ROBERTS

dont think youve answered my questions re ann & pettigrews marriage certificate + witnesses


A John Shefton married Hannah Griffiths in Brymbo 1835. Banns only,
1851 they are in Abbot Street. Wrexham.  Shephton. Wine merchant
Also in Abbot Street is Edward Lovatt clerk. Father is a publican.

Possibly no relation.  Abbot Street is very close to St Giles.
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: willsy on Sunday 01 June 25 12:41 BST (UK)
John Roberts / Jane Jones .
marriage banns Brymbo.18 Feb 1827

John Roberts, bachelor ,  Mason married  Jane Jones widow   in Wrexham 9 Mar 1827
John signed Jane X
Witnesses John Hughes / Jane Hughes both X

Not finding a definite baptism for John Roberts brother  of Ann.
Title: Re: Looking for John Roberts . A Challenge
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 02 June 25 11:32 BST (UK)
 John Pettigrew died 1878.
The notice searching for John Roberts  was published in the Wrexham newspapers 1884.
I have found nothing similar between those years.

I think this search is a lost cause. I was hoping to find that it may have been a  descendant of Ann who was  .
Thanks for chipping in .