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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: littleem1906 on Wednesday 28 May 25 13:33 BST (UK)
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I'm at a lost when it comes to tracing the parents of Ellen Robinson, born abt 1850.
All I know about her is that she married John Richmond in 1868. On the marriage record, she is listed as 17 years old, and living in Navigation Street, Birmingham. Her father is listed as being George Robinson, a labourer. One of the witnesses of the marriage was Mary Robinson.
I have only managed to find Ellen in the 1871 census, living with her husband and his parents (Charles & Mary Richmond). She is listed as being born in Birmingham on that census.
I know she had two children - Elizabeth (1871-1872) & Charles (1869-1953 - I know a lot about him).
Ellen's husband John Richmond died in 1872. From then on, I have been unable to find Ellen in any census. She may have remarried.
I also have no idea who her parents were. Besides a father's name George and the link to Navigation Street.
Who was Ellen Robinson? I can't find her in census earlier than 1871. Did she re-marry? I would love to know if she went on to marry and have more children.
ADDED INFO: Ellen's daughter Elizabeth, who died in 1872, died at Essington Street so Ellen would have been living there at the time. Sadly the informant of the death is the coroner and not Ellen, so I still don't know if Ellen remarried.
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Have you found the son Charles in 1881, he would only have been 12, so some-one must be looking after him
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John and Ellen in 1871 are with John's Grandparents (Charles and Mary) not parents
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But C and M do seem to be parents on earlier censuses. Maybe enumerator transcribed incorrectly
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Just a thought but she could be under a variation of Ellen ie Helen or Nellie or Eleanor, names to look for if you haven't already.
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Have you looked at Navigation Street in 1871 to see if any Robinsons are living there?
As a reference Joseph Hadland is living at number 85 in 1871
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I'm not sure how to look for particular streets in the census. This would be a useful thing to do though.
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There are probably better ways but on ancestry in the search page I just put
Lived in 1871 Birmingham
then in the keyword box type
Navigation Street
It came up with electoral register entries not census but pick a name and check the address is in the right street then look up that person on the relevant census
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For information - copied from an earlier post
I'm looking into JOHN RICHMOND and ELLEN ROBINSON, both of Birmingham. John was born in c.1845 and Ellen was born in c.1850.
I have their marriage details as follows:
St Jude's Church - 31st August 1868
John Richmond - 22 - Bachelor - Brass Tube Solderer - Wharf Street (Father - Charles Richmond - labourer)
Ellen Robinson - 17 - Spinster - Navigation Street (Father - George Robinson - labourer)
Witnesses - Thomas Decley and Mary Robinson.
I have them both in the 1871 census as follows:
Fordrough Street, Birmingham (no house number given)
Charles Richmond - Head - Married - 75 - Locksmith - Warwick, Birmingham
Mary Richmond - Wife - Married - 76 - Warwick, Birmingham
John Richmond - Grandson - Married - 26 - Brass Tube solderer - Warwick, Birmingham
Ellen Richmond - Granddaughter - Married - 21 - Warwick, Birmingham
Charles Richmond - G Grandson - 1 - Warwick, Birmingham
John and Ellen's son, Charles Henry Richmond is missing in 1881, but is found again in 1891 living as a boarder to the Gardner family, with his new wife Elizabeth (nee Underwood). I have not been able to find him in 1881 so far.
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I'm at a lost when it comes to tracing the parents of Ellen Robinson, born abt 1850.
All I know about her is that she married John Richmond in 1868. On the marriage record, she is listed as 17 years old, and living in Navigation Street, Birmingham. Her father is listed as being George Robinson, a labourer. One of the witnesses of the marriage was Mary Robinson.
I've been taking a look at the above this afternoon and wondered if witness Mary Robinson is related to Ellen might be a sister or mother
There's this 1861 census entry it may have no connection to your Robinson family but thought I'd post as her father is named George and his occupation labourer. This Ellen Robinson is not on the 1871 census with her parents George & Mary BUT if she's only aged 7 that would make only 14 on the 1868 marriage to John Richmond :-\ if incorrect at least this Ellen can be ruled out
Ellen’s age transcribed as 27 on Anc*y looking at the original entry age written as 29 crossed out and I think it looks as if 7 is written above.
1861c Piece 2139 Folio 80 Page number 13
address Communication Row
Geo Robinson 45 Head London occ labourer / day
Mary Robinson 29 Wife Dudley Worcestershire
ELLEN Robinson 27 Daughter
Sarah Jane Robinson 3 Daughter
Mary Robinson 1/12 Daughter
all others born Birmingham, Plus one boarder
1861c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7JG-F34?lang=en - family search Ellen’s age transcribed as 3 same as her sister Sarah Jane’s :-\
Not found a birth or baptism for Ellen Robinson with mn Wright ???
Could it be a second marriage for her father George or was she the illegitimate daughter of Mary WRIGHT :-\
Sisters Sarah & Mary ROBINSON’s baptism same day 27 April 1861
Sarah Jane Robinson age 3 years Born 20th Nov 1857
Mary Esther Jane Robinson age 2 months Born 1 Mar 1861
Baptism Place Birmingham
Residence Place Edgbaston
Church Islington Methodist Church
Parish as it Appears The Wesleyan-Methodist Chapel
Father George Robinson Mother Mary abode Communication Row
ROBINSON, SARAH JANE mmn WRIGHT
GRO Reference: 1857 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 63
ROBINSON, MARY ESTHER JANE mmn WRIGHT
GRO Reference: 1861 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 44
Added - Mary Esther Jane Robinson Age 2, abode St Martins Street
Burial 15 Feb 1863 St Bartholomew Birmingham
1871c Piece 3100 Folio 38 Page number 27
George Robinson 60 Middlesex London Head occ ??
Mary Robinson 38 Worcestershire Dudley Wife
Sarah J Robinson 15 Daughter
Theresa Robinson 5 Daughter
1871c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5YH-RGN?lang=en
??za Amelia Robinson Born 24 Jun 1864
Baptism 31 Jul 1864 Birmingham
Residence Place Edgbaston, England
Church Islington Methodist Church
Parish as it Appears The Wesleyan-Methodist Chapel
Father George Robinson Mother Mary
Original reads Thirza Amelia
ROBINSON, THIRZA AMELIA mmn WRIGHT
GRO Reference: 1864 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 11
1881c Piece 2964Folio 70 Page number 31
George Robinson 70 London, Head occ Gen Labourer
Mary Robinson 47 Dudley Wife
Sarah J. Robinson 20 Daughter
Thearsa Robinson 15 Daughter
Charles Robinson 10 Son
Mary J. Robinson 5 Daughter
1881 c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27N-S4ZD?lang=en
Is this Mary J birth entry - no mmn
ROBINSON, MARY ESTHER JANE -
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 51
possible death entry for
George ROBINSON age 79 Dec 1889 Aston Warwickshire
There is an 1854 marriage for a George Robinson to Mary Ann Wright ,
both res. Tonk St., both single, both made their mark - image on Anc*y
27 Nov 1854 Birmingham, St Martin, Warwickshire, England
George Robinson occ roadman Father John Robinson
Spouse Mary Ann Wright
littleem1906 - please come back and let us know your thoughts
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There is another George & Mary Robinson on 1851 census - no children
1851c Piece 2052 Folio 186 Page number 46
Gas Street Birmingham
George Robinson 35 Head occ labourer
Mary Robinson 21 Wife
James Watkin 42 Visitor
The above George Robinson pob Dudley Worcester and Mary’s pob is dittoed Dudley Worcester
1851c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGZN-DVP?lang=en
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@Ladyhawk Thank you so much for looking into this.
On the 1861 census it appears that the ages of George and Mary were written in the wrong place. So the 29 crossed out next to Ellen should have been Mary's age above. I do believe this Ellen was indeed aged 7.
In which case, she couldn't be my Ellen who married in 1868. I doubt she'd have been able to marry at 14? She was apparently 17 at the time of her marriage to John...unless she lied about her age. But why? And was this even possible? She isn't listed as having an occupation on her marriage record, but that might not be uncommon.
IF the Ellen in 1861 is my Ellen, then she would have been born around 1854.
(As an aside, the only Ellen Robinson I could find with MMN Wright was an Ellen Wright Robinson born in King's Lynn in 1848.)
There is an Ellen Mary Robinson born in Birmingham in 1852 - MMN Bosward.
This is a real conundrum. It makes sense that the family in 1861 to be the correct one, because of the father's name George and the Mary living with them. I just can't understand the age given for Ellen. If she really was 7 in 1861 and she is the one who married John Richmond then she must have been underage when she married. However, if she WAS 17 at the time of marriage (making her age in the 1871 census correct) then this family cannot be the right one.
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There is another George & Mary Robinson on 1851 census - no children
1851c Piece 2052 Folio 186 Page number 46
Gas Street Birmingham
George Robinson 35 Head occ labourer
Mary Robinson 21 Wife
James Watkin 42 Visitor
The above George Robinson pob Dudley Worcester and Mary’s pob is dittoed Dudley Worcester
1851c https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGZN-DVP?lang=en
This census could be the same family as in 1861? Though the birth place for George is different.
If so, this is what made me question whether the above George is the correct one, because my Ellen Robinson was apparently born in 1850. Therefore she'd surely appear on this census. Unless, as I said, the Ellen in 1861 really is my Ellen and she was born later than claimed on her marriage certificate and in the 1871 census. In the 1871 census she was living with her husband John's parents so they may not have known her real age perhaps?
Which then brings me back to the question - where is her birth registration on GRO?
Given the age gap between George and Mary, I do think there's a chance he was married before. If so, Ellen may have had a different mother, or she could be the illegitimate child of Mary Wright.
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She isn't listed as having an occupation on her marriage record, but that might not be uncommon.
Just a comment on that, it was far more uncommon for a woman to be listed with an occupation in those days than not whatever her age.
Also I believe full age for marriage was 21.