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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: dtcoulson on Monday 26 May 25 13:00 BST (UK)
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Hi people,
Findagrave has a picture of a headstone named for Captain William Sanderson, of the ship Free Briton, who died in 1842 at the age of 47. The stone says he was "of South Shields". The burial place is along the St Lawrence somewhere near Quebec City. I have not been able to find any other reference to him anywhere.
Anyone able to pair him to data in South Shields or Newcastle?
I have asked about Sandersons before, several years back, but not this particular fellow.
-DC
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It’s ambiguous – the gravestone has “of the brig Free Briton of South Shields”.
Was it perhaps the Free Briton that was of South Shields?
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Lloyds List 31 July 1812 has at Quebec, the arrival of the Free Briton, arrived from Shields.
Obviously this is 30 years earlier. What was the lifespan of a trading vessel in those days?
ADDED:
1854 Glasgow Chronicle
Free Briton, Shields, sailed for Quebec.
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Strangely the newspapers have a lot of references to “Free Briton, Sanderson” in 1846. Perhaps a brother who took over?
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Le Journal de Quebec, 13 Juillet 1847
Arrivages 9 Juillet
Navire - Free Briton, Sanderson, Cork, á ordre do., 185 passagers
(note - the brig FB left Cork 27 May)
The Morning Chronicle, Quebec, Aug 16 1847
PORT OF QUEBEC
Cleared Aug 14
Brig - Free Briton, Preston, South Shields, H S Dalkin
mmmm?
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Thanks Alan,
The 1846 references: do they give any further detail?
There was one, possibly two William Sandersons born c.1825 who worked as a mariner from Newcastle area. I have seen a certificate for him, something like a graduation cert that qualified him for command of a ship though it has been a long time since I saw that document and don't remember it well.
If born in 1795 he would have been 17 in 1812 when the Free Briton appeared in Quebec. Hardly old enough to have been its master. I wonder, how long does it take to rise through the ranks and be given command of a ship? Age 30? 35? Just guessing. But that would take us to 1825-1830. If the ship made regular passage between South Shields and Quebec (again, a guess) then Capt Sanderson could as easily have made his home in Quebec as in South Shields. The mention of the ship on his gravestone implies that he was still serving in his capacity as captain at the time of his death, in which case we'd be looking at a journey in 1842. A man of 47 could easily have a son in his twenties, perhaps a seaman in his own right, a fellow born c.1820. Just putting that out there as a possibility.
-DC
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This refers to a Free Briton built 1845.
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/North_of_England_maritime_directory_ship/oeENAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=brig+free+briton&pg=RA1-PA11&printsec=frontcover
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That explains the sudden rise of mentions in 1846.
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You’ve probably done this, but there are no baptism candidates in South Shields around that date (searched at Durham Records Online).
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In Ancestry:
All Canada, Seafarers of the Atlantic Provinces, 1789-1935
William Sanderson born South Shields 1865, served on the vessel Free Briton which arrived somewhere in 1889.
Unfortunately, I can't read the arrival place.
Strange coincidence that this is the same ship a generation or two later.
Could it be that this was a family business?
-DC
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Regarding missing baptisms:
The Sandersons in my family history are all notoriously absent from baptism records on reason of their religious affiliation. Not that I know much about this but they were of a nonconformist denomination which chose not to pass their records to the mainstream church indexes; either that or they were refused.
I see that the ship was registered at Sunderland. This is where my Sandersons were born so if this is where the maritime Sandersons lived, they were also likely a part of this group.
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CLIP says of the Free Briton:
"Casualty: sunk, 20/10/1862"
Other remarks give her displacement as 271-291 tons.
-DC
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25 October 1862: Norfolk Chronicle
The "Free Briton," Ram, of Shields, foundered off Cromer, on Monday afternoon. The crew were rescued by the master and crew of the French boat, " La Volante De Dieu," of Boulogne, and were landed here on Tuesday evening. Capt. Ram begs to return the hearty thanks of himself and crew for the praiseworthy conduct of their kind rescuers who saved them, separately by ropes, and for the kind treatment they received when on board, and the more so as an English schooner and brig passed them without rendering any assistance.
Another, briefer, report in the Newcastle Chronicle names the owner as Mr R H Weightman
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Three records at FindMyPast under British Merchant Seamen 1835-1857
Wm Sanderson, 42, Sunderland, master, Confidence, of S'Land, 13th Sept [18]36
Wm Sanderson, 40, S'land: records 7 voyages from Confidence 9/36 to Endeavour 4/39. Some are illegible.
Several of the men on this page have an annotation which looks like 'Transpd'
The third record is very sparse in detail, essentially jsu a list of names, but it includes fourteen Wm Sanderson records with different ticket numbers and different places named (including Sunderland and North Shields) — unclear if this is several references to one man.
ADDED: 13 newspaper mentions in 1846 of ‘Endeavour, Sanderson’, all simple arrivals and sailings.
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Have found a reference to the Free Briton 11 July 1842
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Apologies, got mixed up on the name, wrong Briton!
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I spent some time focused on the cemetery itself and its 'residents'.
It is a cemetery within Quebec City, now closed and turned into a park.
It was operational from the 1770s to 1860.
It has more than a thousand graves of which only 314 are named.
It served the protestant community in a predominantly catholic society: Presbyterians and Anglicans.
None of the other named graves are Sandersons.
This suggests he had no family there, either by birth or marriage.
There were burials the day before and the day after Capt William
but they are not seaman.
Looking more broadly I could not find evidence of a spate of burials in July 1842
that would suggest a disaster of any sort.
I think this is telling us that William was not local but he was non-catholic.
This is consistent with a man who could have been born in Sunderland where the ship was built
who practised his faith in a Presbyterian community (Wearmouth was such a place). That is the place where my own Sanderson DNA resided in the 1790s.
DC
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At reply#4 the Free Briton arrives Quebec 9 July, Sanderson master and clears 14 Aug, master Preston.
The headstone shows Quebec 18 July which "fits" neatly 'twixt the arrival and departure noted. However, the former shows 1847 while the latter shows 1842. I had taken a good look at the date on the headstone, willing the "2" to be confused with a "7"!! If only ....
2 items snipped from a. Lloyd's Register 1847 b. Morning Herald, 7 Jun 1842
The imports recorded against the Free Briton -
Free Briton, Madras, 249 Chests Indigo, 1,500 bags rice, 500 bales cotton.
Modified - the Morning Herald names the "Free Briton". However, other newspapers refer to the "True Briton" arriving from Madras. The Morning Herald has got it wrong.
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Re. the report of the Free Briton arriving from Madras I need to cross check against the True Briton sailings around the same time.
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This narrows down the Free Briton's master on the 1847 trip to Quebec to a "W Sanderson" -
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Ontario_and_Quebec_s_Irish_Pioneers/hsY6DwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22briton+sanderson%22&pg=PA197&printsec=frontcover
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re: my reply #13 concerning the William Sanderson associated with the ship Endeavour, I found an indenture record for a W Bailey taken on by W Sanderson, Endeavour, Sunderland in July 1845, so I think we can rule him out as being William Sanderson of the Free Briton.
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Also found a Denis Leary apprenticed 11th May 1847 by Wm Sanderson of the Free Briton.
Master Abode: Liverpool.
Port Enrolled: Cork
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More and more I have been fancying William Sanderson died 1847 NOT 1842.
Durham Probate - pre 1848
https://familyrecords.awh.durham.ac.uk/nei/data/simple.php
Search for Sanderson
Check William Sanderson - 15 entries
Check William Sanderson 1847 - 14th listed
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I have checked the Admin Bond at FamilySearch which simply states "Intestate died 18 July 1847" but does not state where. Also William is a "widower"
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An executor is a "John Taylor" - a William Sanderson married a Mary Taylor at Jarrow 1830, witness "John Taylor."
Several baptisms follow to a "Master mariner".
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A John Taylor, born 1806, living at Jarrow, is head of household with 2 Sandersons whose ages "fit" William and Mary baptisms.
Re. William as a widower there is an 1838 death of a Mary Sanderson, age 29, South Shields.
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I have checked the Admin Bond at FamilySearch which simply states "Intestate died 18 July 1847" but does not state where. Also William is a "widower"
You've underplayed this haven't you? That is the date on the headstone.
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If the age on the stone is correct, but the year is wrong (i.e. should be 1847), then he was born ~1802.
baptism
Sunderland
Robinson's Lane Meeting House
Presbyterian (Scotch)
24 Mar 1801 William Sanderson, born 13 Mar 1801, second son of William Sanderson (native of Sunderland) & Mary Mordey (native of Sunderland)
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"Erected in Memory of" sounds as if it wasn't done at the date of his death?
Added: pure speculation — his family commissioned the memorial at a later date. The handwritten instructions to the stone mason were misread, 1842 for 1847. The family did all this remotely via an agent of some sort and the final stone was never actually checked by someone who knew the correct date.
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For the OP: if this baptism turns out to be relevant then it might be useful for you to know that Durham Records Online have records for this church —Sunderland, Robinson's Lane Meeting House, Presbyterian (Scotch) for the years 1727 - 1825.
DRO does have annual subscriptions, but you can also buy credits.
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Strangely the same couple baptised another William in 1809:
7 May 1809 William Sanderson, born 22 Jan 1809, fourth son of William Sanderson (shoemaker, native of Sunderland) & Mary Mordey (native of Sunderland)
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There are four records for John Taylor Sanderson, three baptisms and a burial. All three baptisms specify William Sanderson (mariner) and Mary Sanderson as parents.
1831 baptism at South Shields, St Hilda, 11th April
1831 burial at South Shields, St Hilda, 18th May, of Thrift Street, age 3 months
1838 baptism at South Shields, St Hilda, 9th May, born 8th May
1838 baptism at Jarrow, St Paul, 5th September 1838
Mary Sanderson was buried at South Shields, St Hilda 19th May 1838, of Heugh Street, age 29
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Trimmed from the photograph by Ginny Lesak Jakoubek
Reduced size to 80%
ERECTED.
To the memory of
Capt. William Sanderson
of the Brig Free Briton
of South Shields England
who died at Quebec
on the 18.July 184[?] That could be a 7 ??
aged 45 years.
I should like to see if there is a dated entry in the burial register, because the listing online seems to be from the headstone photograph, which they have taken as 1842?
Cimetière Anglican Saint-Matthew
Saint-Matthew Anglican Cemetery
Quebec, Capitale-Nationale Region, Quebec, Canada
Mark
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I have checked the Admin Bond at FamilySearch which simply states "Intestate died 18 July 1847" but does not state where. Also William is a "widower"
You've underplayed this haven't you? That is the date on the headstone.
Not quite sure about "underplayed"? It was spotting the newspaper items that a Free Briton sailed into Quebec with a Sanderson at the helm and sailed out with a Preston at the helm that fitted the day/month that a Sanderson, Master of the Free Briton, died there. So I doubted the year, even tho' it does look like 1842 on the headstone.
Still nothing found that confirms the "1842" death is an error but I have seen dynasties posited on a lot, lot less!!.
What never ceases to surprise me is what is out there once you start digging.
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HT, what I was trying to say is that you have found documentation for a man called William Sanderson who died 18th July 1847, and the monument is purported to be for William Sanderson died 18th July 1842. It seems to me that the chances of that same date cropping up for two different men with the same name etc are remote.
Also I, like you, couldn’t see 1847 on the stone, but now that BushInn1746 has posted the image I can see that it could well be 1847. The top of the numeral is angular rather than curved or rounded. I would expect a 2 to have a curve similar to what has been used for 8.
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Agreed that their being 2 different men was remote but never assume anything. I had a feeling re. the newspaper reports the year of death had to be '47 not '42 and followed that line. The 1847 Admin bond adds occupation "Master Mariner" to the equation which moved things forward,
What surprises me is the newspaper "silence" at the South Shields end re. the "probable" 1847 demise of the master of the Free Briton.
I always think back to Stan Freberg and "just the facts". Glad I don't have to make the decision against those facts!!
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I had a peep at Grosse Île deaths 1847 but no mention of WS.
https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2014/pc/R64-198-1-1997-eng.pdf
The Quebec Morning Chronicle is mentioned as the source of the names - coverage is patchy, period around 18 Jul 1847 not covered.
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I think it is one of those figure 7 with a small straight hook at the top. A family memorial photo of mine appears distorted.
Sanderson goes Quebec to Cork June 1847
Sanderson Arrives back at Quebec from Cork on the 9th July 1847 [Lloyd's List 29th July 1847 page 3]
Preston from Quebec arrives at Shields 18th September 1847 [Lloyd's List 22nd September 1847].
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Admin does also say Master Mariner, although not Shields.
Agree it says "Intestate died 18th July 1847"
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However, according to the IR 27 Death Duty Index snippet attached for 1847, William Sanderson is listed in exactly the same entry as another Sanderson, an Isaac Sanderson of South Shields.
1847 Index says Volume 2, folio 509 (snippet attached)
Hopefully this may be the Register which contains folio 509 (referred to in the Duty Index ...
IR 26/1786
Will register: surnames S - T, folios 317-531
Date 1847
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3340935
(Note:- The IR Reversionary Registers, listed for 1847 only seem to go up to Folio 350)
Anyway the Inland Revenue were after their cut!
Mark
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That’s an interesting source. The Free Briton is listed in Appendix 2, p 104 of the original document (not of the pdf). Six deaths at sea and three deaths in hospital quarantine, although since those numbers seem to be compiled from the main text WS must not be included.
Added: posts crossed I am referring to the Canadian record here.
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I have extracted the date only, from the full size Memorial picture.
The 7 does look flat topped close-up and probably has an angled straight hook.
There appears to be a hook and a base on the 1
I often wonder if water has discoloured the adjacent stone to the groove, thereby distorting some characters on photographs.
Mark
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From the same cemetery, 1849, to show an example of a 2 at that time and place.
The ‘hand’ of the carving here looks very similar to that of the WS memorial, but I can’t convince myself that it is identical.
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The 'evidence' that he died in 1842 comes from reading the gravestone (incorrectly).
There are no other records of a William Sanderson dying in Quebec in 1842.
In contrast, the 1847 evidence comes from the church register.
death year, birth year, location, name all agree with your theory.
-DC
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I should add that the references to St Hildas in South Shields strikes a nerve as this is the same parish where my known Sanderson ancestors lived in the 1850s-60s.
One of my known Sandersons was a William Sanderson born 1825 who became a mariner and disappeared, presumably at sea or in some foreign land by 1850. Not to say that this is the same fellow as our Captain in Quebec but it shows the possibility of a merchant navy tradition in our 'clan' and a fondness for the name William. His father, born c.1798 in Sunderland, was another William. Not a mariner but a simple farm hand.
-DC
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Unfortunately, the first Burial records available online for the Church where the headstone reputedly belongs to, the Anglican Church of Saint Matthew, Québec Capital, appear to start 1863.
The previous church burnt down and it appears a replacement was built in 1849 which has also been demolished.
Church of England in Canada. St. Matthew (Québec, Québec)
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/catalog/612303
Canada, Quebec, Non-Catholic Parish Registers, 1763-1967
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/collection/1929561
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Another grave snippet in another cemetery depicting 2 & 7
The last figure in the memorial date of William Sanderson is more difficult to read from a photograph.
Mark
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Hi,
From the Quebec Church Death Records, the Anglican Holy Trinity Church, the date is written out as....forty seven. It says age 45. The "forty seventh leaf" on the top right is page #.
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I went looking for John Taylor Sanderson (1839).
Found him staying with the family of John Taylor in 1851.
He is listed as a nephew.
Going to GRO I saw that his mother's maiden name was Taylor.
And then going to FreeReg I found a marriage between William Sanderson & Mary Taylor.
All of the above happens in Jarrow.
I couldn't find a connection to Isaac Sanderson despite many such people in the data.
Anyway, I think we've got the man and his family, finally.
My initial interest in Capt William (1802) was that he died in a place where I have a few clusters of DNA matches who also match known Sanderson line relatives. Not Quebec precisely but the broader region. I wanted to know if he had offspring in Canada and while we can't rule out the possibility there is no clear reason to think they existed, and I think good enough reason to believe they did not.
This means I'm ready to let go of this search if you folks are.
-DC
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Hi,
From the Quebec Church Death Records, the Anglican Holy Trinity Church, the date is written out as....forty seven. It says age 45. The "forty seventh leaf" on the top right is page #.
Good find dbree
That is the burial record of "William Sanderson, Master of the" [blank]
"Aged, forty five Years, died, on the Eighteenth, and was Buried, on the Nineteenth day, of July, in the Year of our Lord, One thousand eight hundred and forty seven."
The 1847 Register with the burial in, indicates it was originally known as the English Metropolitan Church at the City of Quebec.
As dbree says, on the 47th leaf.
Added:
Canada, Quebec, Non-Catholic Parish Registers, 1763-1967
https://www.familysearch.org/en/search/collection/1929561
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:9Q97-YSVT-KRF?wc=M6X8-CWG%3A224609301%2C224716301%2C224544101%26cc%3D1929561&cc=1929561&lang=en&i=0
About image no 58 from the link to leaf 47 and the burial of William Sanderson.
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Headstone photo ...
Capt. William Sanderson of the Brig Free Briton of South Shields England who died at Quebec, on the 18 July 1847 aged 45 yrs.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=891648.msg7657151#msg7657151
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"Ginny" (Lesak) Jakoubek
The original full size photograph of the grave of Capt. William Sanderson, was by Ginny Lesak Jakoubek and she appears to have passed away this year.
https://www.palmerfuneralhomes.com/obituary/VirginiaGinny-Jakoubek
"She was a proud member of the Daughters of the American Revolution and very active in family genealogy, known to spend a lot of time on “Find a Grave”, traveling the country to photograph graves to aid others in their research."
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Dbree-
Magic find - glad my "feeling" about the 1847 newspaper reports were not ill founded. As already said "it's amazing what's out there when you start digging"
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Thanks HT and B1746.
HT I'm stealing your link for Grosse Ile, as I've not come across it before. :) Thanks
DB