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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Gerard 62 on Monday 19 May 25 14:21 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: Gerard 62 on Monday 19 May 25 14:21 BST (UK)
Hi Guys,
Agnes married Richard Patton on 15 Feb 1900 in Belfast. Can you find her birth record?
On the 1901 census, I think I see her father James age 54 & mother Anne age 52, Co Antrim - but is that correct?
Did that James & Ann Caldwell have a daughter Agnes?
Thanks
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 19 May 25 15:37 BST (UK)
You've posted in IRELAND- RESOURCES which is not for queries. Just click on 'report to moderator' and ask for this topic to be moved to ANTRIM board where it belongs.

For reference-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10332/5761726.pdf
Bride's residence Greencastle, father James Caldwell a farmer. Agnes age 19 so born c1881.

Richard Patton & wife Agnes in 1901- Agnes aged 21 so born c1880-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward__Belfast/Catherine_s_Row/977803/

In 1911 Richard Patton & wife now Ruth (married 1 year)-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Duncairn/Barbour_Street/170755/

Sadly, Agnes Patton died in 1908 in Greencastle and her father James Caldwell of Greencastle was the informant-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05481/4535003.pdf

https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/belfast-upper/shankill/duncairn/greencastle/
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 19 May 25 15:44 BST (UK)
Quote
On the 1901 census, I think I see her father James age 54 & mother Anne age 52, Co Antrim - but is that correct?
Did that James & Ann Caldwell have a daughter Agnes?
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Killoquin_North/Tamlaght/946736/
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/kilconway/killoquin/church-tamlaght/
This family living near Rasharkin (and nowhere near Greencastle)
There's a son Charles- here's his birth in Tamlaght-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1883/02727/2002956.pdf

However, here's that same Charles Caldwell in 1911 census- in household of Richard Patton!
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Duncairn/Barbour_Street/170755/
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: softly softly on Monday 19 May 25 15:53 BST (UK)
Whilst the 1901 census records Anne as James wife I am wondering if James may have remarried between the birth of John Joseph 1888 and 1901 if this is the John Joseph in 1901 census

1901 census

Caldwell   James   54   Male   Head of Family   R C
Caldwell   Margt   56   Female   Sister   R C
Caldwell   Chas   17   Male   Son   R C
Caldwell   Jno Jos   13   Male   Son   R C **
Caldwell   Anne   52   Female   Wife   R C

** birth
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1888/02528/1936613.pdf

SS
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: softly softly on Monday 19 May 25 16:24 BST (UK)
Is the marriage of parents of Charles Caldwell.


https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1870/11380/8178402.pdf

SS
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 19 May 25 16:30 BST (UK)
Births for children of James Caldwell & Annie Hamill-
John (20 Dec.1872 Dreen)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1872/03226/2182503.pdf (father teacher)
Jane (15 Sept.1874)
Mary Ellen (1 July 1877 Dreen)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1877/03001/2099804.pdf (father National School teacher)
Charles (19 Sept.1883)- born Tamlaght, father farmer

Dreen townland marches Tamlaght-
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/kilconway/killoquin/church-tamlaght/

? Caldwell James of Tamlaght Rasharkin county Antrim farmer died 29 September 1931 Administration Belfast 16 September [1946] to Mary McErlaine married woman. Effects £215 10s.
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: Gerard 62 on Monday 19 May 25 17:53 BST (UK)
Thanks Guys. Nothing clear there about Agnes's birth. A DNA link suggests that Agnes may be a sister of John Caldwell who married Isabella McGinn in Belfast on 4 July 1909. Father there was James Caldwell, a labourer.
Would you all agree that the John married in 1909, age 21, is the John Joseph (born 1888) linked by Softly Softly? Can anyone read his mothers name? Maguire??
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 19 May 25 21:44 BST (UK)
The 1901 census says John Joseph Caldwell was born in Co. Antrim (as the rest of the family). The birth that softly softly posted was in Dublin with the father James being a smith. So, wrong county (quite far apart) and completely wrong occupation for father.

1901 census shows an unmarried sister of James Caldwell's. That sister Margaret died 1919-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05153/4420820.pdf
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 19 May 25 22:00 BST (UK)
1909 marriage of John Caldwell to Isabella McGinn-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10023/5645944.pdf

Here they are in 1911 in the Maginn household-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Pottinger__part_of_/Beechfield_Street/219948/
Note that John Caldwell's occupation is conductor B.C. tramway [Belfast City?]. In 1911 Charles Caldwell was a railway labourer.
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: gaffy on Tuesday 20 May 25 07:39 BST (UK)
I can see a transcript of a baptism on 20 July 1880 in Rasharkin RC parish for Agnes Caldwell, parents recorded as James Caldwell and Ann Hamill, the sponsor was Jane Hamill, the priest was J. Convery. I can't see it on the NLI Catholic Parish Registers website, so I imagine it's from a different register. Nor can I readily find a civil birth registration.   

Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 20 May 25 09:01 BST (UK)
Thinking along same lines as gaffy and just started searching baptismal registers.

Civil registration of Mary Ellen gives birth as 1 July 1877. However, the entry in register shows her baptised on 15 May 1877-
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633199?locale=en#page/145/mode/1up (parents James Colwell as Ellen Hamill)
So, if they registered one child this late it's possible others were also (or not registered at all)

Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: Gerard 62 on Tuesday 20 May 25 14:50 BST (UK)
Fabulous work guys. Thank you.
The Church record of the baptism of Agnes answers my question about James & Anne having a daughter Agnes. The ages tie in too. Add in the description of her father as a farmer (on her marriage cert) and the later appearance of Charles Caldwell in Richard Patton's census and it all holds together.

I hope I can call on your expertise again when I formulate my next (harder) question.
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 20 May 25 15:25 BST (UK)
Not sure what angle your research is coming from (Caldwells or Pattons or ? ) but here a few more bits-
Death of Charles Hamill, schoolmaster-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06057/4726523.pdf

Baptism of John Caldwell of Dreen on 15 Dec.1872 (registration date 20 Dec.1872)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633199?locale=en#page/130/mode/1up

Baptism of Jane Caldwell of Tamlaght on 19 Sept.1874 (GONI index 15 Sept.1874)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633199?locale=en#page/136/mode/1up

Birth registration for Jane-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1874/03129/2147269.pdf
Title: Re: Looking for DoB Agnes Caldwell, Antrim
Post by: Gerard 62 on Tuesday 20 May 25 15:41 BST (UK)
Thanks aghadowey.
I'm trying to identify my wife's great grandparents, to complete a family tree & hang it on the wall.
This thread was about her other grandparents, so that I can narrow down her DNA matches.
I'll put up my core question shortly, hoping that I haven't already imposed too much on your expertise.
[New Thread Coming]