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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: dbb1960 on Saturday 17 May 25 09:27 BST (UK)

Title: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: dbb1960 on Saturday 17 May 25 09:27 BST (UK)
Witness John (unimportant surname) In Bold  ******  *******  *******  ******* John Bruntoun

Any help greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: horselydown86 on Saturday 17 May 25 17:12 BST (UK)
...witnes Johne purvys in bold cudbert drawar in caprastonn*...

*  Also mentioned in the previous line as the place where his seal was affixed.
Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: GR2 on Saturday 17 May 25 17:43 BST (UK)
A very minor thing: the place is written "caprastoun". A u can look very like an n. Places which end in "-ton" today usually end "-toun" at this period.
Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: dbb1960 on Saturday 17 May 25 18:44 BST (UK)
Many thanks for that. Its from an Instruments of Reversion regarding

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Stewart_of_Caverston

Caberston (Caverstoun), is now a part of Walkerburn. I would assume my document would have come after 1568.

'cudbert drawar' is a new name to me, never come across the surname before.

In 1620 a John Bruntoun got a 5 year tack at Presthop (Priesthope) about a half mile away from Caberston. In 1650 my John was born at Caberston (son of Robert Bruntoun who had the tack of Seithope, prior to that at Nether Ludgate up at Stow. I can speculate Robert had brothers James, Thomas and more than likely John - although with John I can find no written connection). 

The Instruments of Reversion is mainly to do with William Bruntoun. I know there was a Richard Bruntoun living at Grieston at this time, who had a son, John, who had 5 sons (Thomas, Richard, John, James and Alexander).

What popped out to me was the John Bruntoun mentioned in this document as it goes on "John Bruntoun ** ** ** John Atheston ? Notarie Peebles.

Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: GR2 on Saturday 17 May 25 23:35 BST (UK)
The final name is "Sir Johne allane notarie publict" = Sir John Allan, notary public. He has the title Sir which was given to priests who did not have a university degree. Those with a degree were called Master.

Before the Reformation it was illegal to charge interest, so the usual practice for landowners was to sell land to someone under reversion. This meant that the buyer gave the seller a letter of reversion undertaking to return the land to the seller either on a set date or at an unspecified time in the future when the seller was able to repay the buyer the purchase price. The system meant that the buyer received the income from the land until it was redeemed as a legal form of "interest" on the purchase money.
Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: shanreagh on Sunday 18 May 25 11:25 BST (UK)
...
'cudbert drawar' is a new name to me, never come across the surname before.

...

I wonder if 'Drawar'  is the Scottish name of 'Dewar.' 
Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: dbb1960 on Sunday 01 June 25 17:33 BST (UK)
Whats the two words before 'Sir Johne allane notarie publict' ?

The line before this is "witnes Johne purvys in bold cudbert drawar in caprastonn Johne Bruntoun...."

Bold and Caberston are opposite sides of the Tweed at Walkerburn, both villages were Bruntons lived in the 1500/1600s. Uber Haus in Caberston back in the very early 1700s was one of the houses.
Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: GR2 on Sunday 01 June 25 18:01 BST (UK)
The second word is "and" - compare it with the ending of "thowsand" in the line above. That means the first word must designate the previous person. It isn't very clear, but could be "zor" (= zo[unge]r = younger). John will have been mentioned earlier in the document and it might be clearer there. The date of the document, from the previous line, in in the 1560s.
Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: dbb1960 on Sunday 01 June 25 18:15 BST (UK)
Thank you, again.

I think 1568 is the earliest it could be. According to wiki, so totally unchecked by me,

William Stewart of Caverston and Traquair ...... ...Regent Moray gave William Stewart a charter of the lands of "Caverstoun" in January 1568

I'll play about with the document to see if I can make it clearer.
Title: Re: Old Scottish 1550s document. 1 line.
Post by: GR2 on Sunday 01 June 25 18:51 BST (UK)
Remember that in Scotland New Year's Day was on the 25th March until 1600, when it changed to 1st January (England didn't change until the 1700s). Presumably Wikipedia is using the modern calendar when it says January 1568. A contemporary document would say January 1567 as it would be the old year until 25th March. There is probably more detail concealed in the body of your document.