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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ASB74 on Friday 16 May 25 16:39 BST (UK)
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Hello
I have a book which has a photograph of a crowd of people on Smithfields in Sheffield. My grandparents are in the photo which is apparently 1932 and I can see a few other people that I think were my grandfather's brothers. However, I am unaware of them living there so wondered if anyone on here could help me find out who lived in that street. I have tried Sheffield Archives but they cannot help apparently and I don't live in Sheffield so can't visit in person. Many thanks in advance
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What sort of crowd ie going about their business, at a celebration, waiting in a queue, any clues would help.
Is there a description under the photo?
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In the context of Sheffield, are Smithfield and Smithfields referring to the same thing? There is a street called Smithfield that I have found, indeed it is still there today. So this post refers to that Smithfield, apologies if I am heading off in the wrong direction.
Looking at FindMyPast address search, Smithfield is not indexed for the 1939 survey, but does appear for earlier censuses.
Here are two 25 inch map views. As you can see, there is housing in Smithfield on the earlier map which has disappeared on the later map.
If the photo from 1932 shows houses is it possible that it was a pre-demolition gathering?
1921
https://maps.nls.uk/view/125651203#zoom=5.9&lat=6922&lon=15207&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/125651203#zoom=5.9&lat=6922&lon=15207&layers=BT)
1935-1937
https://maps.nls.uk/view/125651206#zoom=6.2&lat=6846&lon=15492&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/125651206#zoom=6.2&lat=6846&lon=15492&layers=BT)
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Sheffield Local Studies Library has directories for that period, and I think they have copies of electoral registers on the open shelves, although the main collection is with Archives. The problem is they have a shared email address. Try re-enquiring, specifically about what is available in Local Studies.
Mention the reference to your book. Is the photo in Picture Sheffield? They would normally be interested in identifying individuals shown on photos.
You could also try http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/ (http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/) on their Message Forum.
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What sort of crowd ie going about their business, at a celebration, waiting in a queue, any clues would help.
Is there a description under the photo?
It just says 1932 smithfields - hopefully it's accurate!
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In the context of Sheffield, are Smithfield and Smithfields referring to the same thing? There is a street called Smithfield that I have found, indeed it is still there today. So this post refers to that Smithfield, apologies if I am heading off in the wrong direction.
Looking at FindMyPast address search, Smithfield is not indexed for the 1939 survey, but does appear for earlier censuses.
Here are two 25 inch map views. As you can see, there is housing in Smithfield on the earlier map which has disappeared on the later map.
If the photo from 1932 shows houses is it possible that it was a pre-demolition gathering?
1921
https://maps.nls.uk/view/125651203#zoom=5.9&lat=6922&lon=15207&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/125651203#zoom=5.9&lat=6922&lon=15207&layers=BT)
1935-1937
https://maps.nls.uk/view/125651206#zoom=6.2&lat=6846&lon=15492&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/125651206#zoom=6.2&lat=6846&lon=15492&layers=BT)
I never thought of that. I will try and find out the history of the street - see when the houses were demolished. What is the confusing aspect for me though is, my grandparents lived at Heeley, Albert Terrace in the 1930s. They didn't marry until December 1932. So I am now wondering if the date in the book is wrong??
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The author of the book was a former City Archivist. Is there a list of sources inside? Ask Local Studies about it.
You tend to get groups of people who came out to be photographed when official surveys were being made prior to demolition, but not such a large and organised group, and the photos would be focused on the defective buildings, not the street. This looks more like an organised event, possibly as AlanBoyd suggests, a farewell gathering.
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Now I've found the photo: Picture Sheffield ref s19505
https://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?action=zoom&keywords=s19505&continueUrl=ZnJvbnRlbmQucGhwP2FjdGlvbj1zZWFyY2g=
which has a reference to page 119 in your book.
And another similar photo: ref s19360
https://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?action=zoom&keywords=s19360&continueUrl=ZnJvbnRlbmQucGhwP2FjdGlvbj1zZWFyY2g=
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If you go to the 1921 map that I linked, imagine standing in Smithfeld looking north, you will see, at the end of the street the Allen Street Sunday Scholl as mentioned in the descriptions for the photos linked by MollyC.
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There are various newspaper items about slum clearance in the area. The earliest that I have seen dates from 1926 and it implies that there had already been clearances by then (65 rehoused). On the other hand, this item from 1934 indicates that the process was still going on then.
21 March 1934: Sheffield Independent
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MollyC’s first link to the photo says that it dates from 1937. The second link is much vaguer.
Added: and they refer to some demolition having already taken place.
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Now I've found the photo: Picture Sheffield ref s19505
https://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?action=zoom&keywords=s19505&continueUrl=ZnJvbnRlbmQucGhwP2FjdGlvbj1zZWFyY2g=
which has a reference to page 119 in your book.
And another similar photo: ref s19360
https://www.picturesheffield.com/frontend.php?action=zoom&keywords=s19360&continueUrl=ZnJvbnRlbmQucGhwP2FjdGlvbj1zZWFyY2g=
That’s brilliant! Thanks
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Yes, I had just noticed the catalogue entry for s19505 gives a date of 1937, suggesting it had a date on the back, but the other one does not. Is 1932 a misprint? They were probably taken on the same occasion, but not catalogued together with consecutive numbers.
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Yes, I had just noticed the catalogue entry for s19505 gives a date of 1937, suggesting it had a date on the back, but the other one does not. Is 1932 a misprint? They were probably taken on the same occasion, but not catalogued together with consecutive numbers.
That’s brilliant makes more sense as my grandparents didn’t marry until December 1932. Thanks for your help
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I have a copy of the 1939 Kelly's directory for Sheffield and Rotherham. The only listings for Smithfields are manufacturers - small businesses all involved in production of steel items.So it looks as though the resident population had been rehoused by 1939.
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Thank you! I think if I’ve worked it out correctly I need to look at the residents if 7 Smithfield’s and also the houses opposite, maybe 4&6. Can you recommend the best site to research this please? Thanks again
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I imagine that if you are interested in dates after 1921 then it might be difficult — electoral registers as mentioned in reply #3?
The image below is Smithfield in White's Directory of 1919. This only gives details of businesses, but it indicates that Smithfield was organised into courts, so an address like "4 Smithfield" will relate to several households. Here are links to two large scale maps from 1889 (Smithfield is split across them) to show where the individual courts were – perhaps you already have this information, but it will flesh out this thread for any future readers.
OS Town Plans 1889
[Covered entrances or alleyways to courts are denoted by crossed lines.]
—lower section of Smithfield
https://maps.nls.uk/view/231282486#zoom=4.8&lat=9996&lon=13294&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/231282486#zoom=4.8&lat=9996&lon=13294&layers=BT)
Courts 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 (part) all on the west side below Cross Smithfield.
Courts 2, 4, 6 (part) on the east side.
—upper section of Smithfield
https://maps.nls.uk/view/231282471#zoom=5.3&lat=1786&lon=12744&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/231282471#zoom=5.3&lat=1786&lon=12744&layers=BT)
Court 13 (part including entrance) on the west side.
Courts 6 (part) and 8 on the east side. Court 6 looks to be particularly complicated.
Going back to the first photo linked by MollyC in reply #7, the notes say that it is taken from near the entrance to Court 5, and that Court 9 "on the left has been demolished." Incidentally I discovered that if you click on Zoom above the image you get a higher resolution image (the basis of the 'magnify' function.
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Looking at the addresses in the 1921 census it seems that numbers were associated with a specific house and also with a court. I assume that the house was entered directly off the street, then the court was accessed through an entry way.
Going back to the first photo in reply #7, I suggest that the group of three people on the extreme left are positioned at the doorway of house no. 5 (man in doorway) and immediately adjacent to that the entry way to court no. 5 (couple).
In 1921 there are entries for 5 Smithfield and also 5/1 and 5/2 Smithfield.
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I imagine that if you are interested in dates after 1921 then it might be difficult — electoral registers as mentioned in reply #3?
The image below is Smithfield in White's Directory of 1919. This only gives details of businesses, but it indicates that Smithfield was organised into courts, so an address like "4 Smithfield" will relate to several households. Here are links to two large scale maps from 1889 (Smithfield is split across them) to show where the individual courts were – perhaps you already have this information, but it will flesh out this thread for any future readers.
OS Town Plans 1889
[Covered entrances or alleyways to courts are denoted by crossed lines.]
—lower section of Smithfield
https://maps.nls.uk/view/231282486#zoom=4.8&lat=9996&lon=13294&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/231282486#zoom=4.8&lat=9996&lon=13294&layers=BT)
Courts 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 (part) all on the west side below Cross Smithfield.
Courts 2, 4, 6 (part) on the east side.
—upper section of Smithfield
https://maps.nls.uk/view/231282471#zoom=5.3&lat=1786&lon=12744&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/231282471#zoom=5.3&lat=1786&lon=12744&layers=BT)
Court 13 (part including entrance) on the west side.
Courts 6 (part) and 8 on the east side. Court 6 looks to be particularly complicated.
Going back to the first photo linked by MollyC in reply #7, the notes say that it is taken from near the entrance to Court 5, and that Court 9 "on the left has been demolished." Incidentally I discovered that if you click on Zoom above the image you get a higher resolution image (the basis of the 'magnify' function.
This is great. Thanks. I have a more precise idea of which court yards to look at. I’m trying to solve a family mystery which is why I’m trying to track my grandmother and especially her grandmother! You mentioned Whites - is it available online? Or is it a case of visiting Sheffield to go to the archives??
Thanks again
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I have a copy of the 1939 Kelly's directory for Sheffield and Rotherham. The only listings for Smithfields are manufacturers - small businesses all involved in production of steel items.So it looks as though the resident population had been rehoused by 1939.
Thanks. Is the Kelly’s Directory available online?
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I think the man in the door way is my dad’s uncle and his first wife. Thanks again. I’ll sign up to ancestry to look at the census see if it yields anything.
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The White’s directory that I posted from is available on Ancestry.
In case you have trouble finding Smithfield in 1921 search for Ellen Mitchell age 37, who is in house 5.
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I have a copy of the 1939 Kelly's directory for Sheffield and Rotherham. The only listings for Smithfields are manufacturers - small businesses all involved in production of steel items.So it looks as though the resident population had been rehoused by 1939.
Thanks. Is the Kelly’s Directory available online?
I don't think so. Mine is a hard copy, "rescued" from the house of an elderly relative after their death!