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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: petey22 on Wednesday 14 May 25 07:37 BST (UK)

Title: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: petey22 on Wednesday 14 May 25 07:37 BST (UK)
dear all,
On receiving the death certificate of William (Bocking) Rogers born 1852 Sudbury death 1918, I read to my suprise the following:
William Rogers, died 4th april 1918 on pavement of mansfield Street, male, aged 65
A pensioned railway goods checker of 4 Wilmot House, Mansford Street, Bethnal Green
Fracture of skull from fall from window. Suicide. Temporary Insanity P.M.
Certificate received from Wimm Westcott Coroner for North East London Inquest held 8th April 1918.

Can I find more information about this? would this have appeared in the local newspapers? If so, which newspapers would this have been?  Would the inquest report be available somewhere?

It seems that William committed suicide at home at Wilmot House, Mansford street, Bethnal Green. Does this house still stand? I am based in the Netherlands and hope to travel back to Blighty to visit graveyards and the like.

On 'Find a Grave' I have discovered that William is buried at Manor Park Cemetery, Forest gate, Newham and I desperately need a photo of the stone as according to 'Find-a-grave' the inscription reads 'William Bocking Rogers'. This photo I need with regard to my 'Bocking Rogers' name study,,,  ::) so If there are any kind souls out there in the general area, I would be very grateful.

kind regards
Pete
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: cockney rebel on Wednesday 14 May 25 09:10 BST (UK)
Hi
It looks like that part of London has changed a lot and I don't think that you will find that house still standing. It was at 1-12 Mansford Street which was then on the corner of Florida Street.
With Google Streetview you  can see that that road layout has been built over with housing.
Rebel











Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: bearkat on Wednesday 14 May 25 09:26 BST (UK)
There's an old photo of Mansford Rd

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=851722821573343&set=a.216224571789841&locale=en_GB

Someone has commented: "Apparently that row was originally called "Wilmot House, Mansford Buildings, and Toye's Buildings, after the builder Samuel Toye." Built from 1880-1889."
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: Bookbox on Wednesday 14 May 25 13:02 BST (UK)
There are no surviving inquest reports for the London North Eastern coroner's district before 1927. Your best bet for a report will be the newspapers.
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: rosie99 on Wednesday 14 May 25 13:54 BST (UK)

On 'Find a Grave' I have discovered that William is buried at Manor Park Cemetery, Forest gate, Newham and I desperately need a photo of the stone as according to 'Find-a-grave' the inscription reads 'William Bocking Rogers'. This photo I need with regard to my 'Bocking Rogers' name study,,,  ::) so If there are any kind souls out there in the general area, I would be very grateful.

kind regards
Pete

Have you considered posting a request for a photo on the Findagrave website
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 14 May 25 15:35 BST (UK)
Deceased Online just says William Rogers, buried 11 April 1918, Newham (cemetery is Manor Park)
Grave details and 28 other burials

So likely a common grave, and unlikely to be a headstone.

If the findagrave contributor has it right about his wife being Mary Ann and buried at Manor Park in 1921, then she was buried 13 April 1921. Grave has 14 other burials.
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: LizzieL on Wednesday 14 May 25 16:02 BST (UK)

On 'Find a Grave' I have discovered that William is buried at Manor Park Cemetery, Forest gate, Newham and I desperately need a photo of the stone as according to 'Find-a-grave' the inscription reads 'William Bocking Rogers'.

It is never clear from Find a Grave website what is fact (by that I mean: written on the actual headstone) and what is possible fiction e.g contributed information about the deceased birth place, birthdate, family members (excluding those specifically mentioned on the same headstone) etc
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: petey22 on Thursday 15 May 25 08:49 BST (UK)
dear all,
thanks very much for all the information  ;D

I'm quite surprised that William and wife Mary Ann most probably ended up in communal graves and I guess also disappointed that there is also no actual grave stone. I shall however apply for the additional information offered by Deceased online if they ever accept my Dutch credit card  :-\

So, no inquest report, no grave stone but at least the possibility of a mention in a local newspaper is still an option. The East London Advertiser and East London Observer have been advised to me.
Are there any other options?
Kind regards
Pete
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: AlanBoyd on Thursday 15 May 25 14:46 BST (UK)
I have searched the British Newspaper Archives for (Rogers, Mansford), (Rogers, Bethnal) and (Rogers, Wilmot) in April 1918 and I have drawn a blank.

The archive covers the East London Observer for that period, but not the East London Advertiser (this stops at 1866, I don't know if that means that it didn't publish after that date).

Note that because the search is on OCR'd text a negative search result is not reliable 'evidence of absence'.

Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: petey22 on Thursday 15 May 25 15:40 BST (UK)
Hi Alan,
thanks for the search and your tip of the ' British Newspaper Archive'  ;D I signed up and made some searches myself unfortunately, also with no success  :P
I also tried searching at 'find a will.gov.uk' also with no success, (although I'm pretty crap at that and never find who I'm looking for).,,,,, brick walls  ::)
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: PatLac on Friday 16 May 25 01:19 BST (UK)
He was born in Bocking (Braintree), Essex, hence the second forename?

Registered as BROCKEN on FreeBMD and BOCKEN on GRO.

Surname    First name(s)        District    Vol    Page
Births Sep 1852   (>99%)
Rogers    William Brocken        Braintree    4a   269

   Name:   Mother's Maiden Surname:
   ROGERS, WILLIAM  BOCKEN     LEE 
GRO Reference: 1852  S Quarter in BRAINTREE UNION  Volume 04A  Page 269
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: petey22 on Tuesday 20 May 25 08:48 BST (UK)
dear all,
I have the Burial register scan from deceasedonline.com.
The entry reads:
William Rogers, aged 65, of 4 Wilmott House, Mansford Street, Bethnal Green. Square 129, Grave 669.  Thus no mention of Bocking.
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: petey22 on Tuesday 20 May 25 09:10 BST (UK)
He was born in Bocking (Braintree), Essex, hence the second forename?

The name 'Bocking Rogers' I believe comes from the following:

Elizabeth Tiffen c1803 marries James Bocking c1799 on 13-11-1820 in Sudbury
They have children Charles 18921 - 1830, Sarah 1823 - 1830, James 1825 - 1832
These children all die young and so does father James in 1829 (all possibly from an smallpox epidemic?)
Elizabeth then marries William Bocking c1807 on 30-07-1830 in Sudbury, they have son William Bocking Rogers c1831 and thus begins the name 'Bocking Rogers' and why? that has become an obsession for me. Some within my family believe that William c1831 was the son of Elizabeth and James Bocking and some believe Elizabeth and William.
Anyway, the children of William c1831 and Christiana Lee also receive the "Bocking Rogers' name at birth. Some cling to the name and use it here and there and others not. After this generation, the 'Bocking Rogers' name disappears. My gt gt gt grandfather and William's brother Charles Bocking Rogers, was known and referred to by future generations as 'old Bocking'.
A long story, but something that occupies much of my time and also something I hope to solve one day  ::)
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: MollyC on Tuesday 20 May 25 17:59 BST (UK)
Quote
Registered as BROCKEN on FreeBMD and BOCKEN on GRO.

The manuscript source of FreeBMD definitely shows two letters between B and c.  I have reported an error.
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: PatLac on Thursday 22 May 25 13:48 BST (UK)
He was born in Bocking (Braintree), Essex, hence the second forename?

The name 'Bocking Rogers' I believe comes from the following:

Elizabeth Tiffen c1803 marries James Bocking c1799 on 13-11-1820 in Sudbury
They have children Charles 18921 - 1830, Sarah 1823 - 1830, James 1825 - 1832
These children all die young and so does father James in 1829 (all possibly from an smallpox epidemic?)
Elizabeth then marries William Bocking c1807 on 30-07-1830 in Sudbury, they have son William Bocking Rogers c1831 and thus begins the name 'Bocking Rogers' and why? that has become an obsession for me. Some within my family believe that William c1831 was the son of Elizabeth and James Bocking and some believe Elizabeth and William.
Anyway, the children of William c1831 and Christiana Lee also receive the "Bocking Rogers' name at birth. Some cling to the name and use it here and there and others not. After this generation, the 'Bocking Rogers' name disappears. My gt gt gt grandfather and William's brother Charles Bocking Rogers, was known and referred to by future generations as 'old Bocking'.
A long story, but something that occupies much of my time and also something I hope to solve one day  ::)

Oh I see, you are intrigued by the Rogers part of the name  ;D

This tree on FS says his father was William Rogers and mother was Elizabeth Bocking Tiffin (sic).

Possible marriage record as Elizabeth Booking https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJKW-55V?lang=en
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: petey22 on Tuesday 27 May 25 09:28 BST (UK)
dear all,
can anyone help with regard to a possible will for William Rogers 1852 - 1918 or wife Mary Ann (Myers) Rogers 1852 - 1921? 
I have tried my best but do not have much experience with probates/wills  ???
Many thanks in advance
Pete  ::)
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: jorose on Tuesday 10 June 25 13:04 BST (UK)
It is quite likely that neither had signficant enough of an estate behind to require probate.  The majority of people did not.
Title: Re: Suicide 1918, Mansford street, Bethnal Green
Post by: DianaCanada on Tuesday 17 June 25 00:54 BST (UK)
I can see no probate records for either of them, after looking at the Probate Index on Anc., which covers the time period.