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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: KPM on Monday 12 May 25 18:57 BST (UK)
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Hi
I have found several newspaper reports regarding my relative who was for a short time the landlady of the Victory Beer house in Eden Street in Kingston (between 1858 - 1862 roughly). In the end if would appear she had her licence removed due to the amount of trouble there!!!
I have not been able to find anything about the Victory despite lots of online searches.
I am also struggling to find any reference to it in the 1861 census but then a lot of my Hamilton/Leary relatives are missing in 1861 and I wonder whether part of the census is missing?
Any information about the Victory beer house would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks in advance.
KPM
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October 1861 there is a newspaper item which names Caroline Sketon [sic] of the Victory beer-house (drunk and causing a disturbance).
I found George Skilton, 37, labourer and beer [something], his wife Caroline, 35 and their son John in the 1861 census at Eden Street, the Victory. If you have A***y access:
https://tinyurl.com/2mvexw6u (https://tinyurl.com/2mvexw6u)
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Was your relative Mary Leary? The last newspaper item that I can see linking her to Eden Street is in 1859.
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Hi
Yes Mary Leary was my ancestor. The last reference I can find linking her to the Victory was December 1860 - lots of different variations of the spelling of the surname. By 1862 she was keeping a lodging house in Waterman's passage.
I've really struggled to find Richard Hamilton (sometimes Hambleton or Hammerton) born 1827 his wife Julia and their son Richard (1857) who I think were probably with Mary Leary (Julia's mother) in 1861. I've spent hours looking for them!!!
Regards
KPM
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Long shot based on birth year of Richard 1857 ???
Possible miss spelling or transcription of Julia's Surname
Name Richard Laming Hamilton
Sex Male
Spouse's Name Julia Laety
Spouse's Sex Female
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 9 Aug 1854
Event Place Kingston upon Thames, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N2BL-VYD?lang=en
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Maybe Richard's death
Name Richard Hamilton
Sex Male
Age 65
Birth Year (Estimated) 1828
Event Type Burial
Event Date 30 Aug 1893
Event Place Kingston upon Thames, Surrey, England, United Kingdom
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JZHD-W27?lang=en
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Looking at the original record for the marriage of Julia Laety found by gc1:
a) it really does look like Laety not Leary, and she is a minor
b) she names her father as Timothy Laety, labourer
c) the groom’s occupation is, I think, fruiterer.
KPM, does any of that fit?
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Dear both
Thank you for your help.
gc1 - these records are both mine. Richard was a twin born in 1827 in the City of London (Brother James) and married Julia Leary when she was 14!! I thought I'd got that wrong at the start but the marriage cert said she was a minor and the census and her death certificate both confirm she was 14 when they married. Their marriage wasnt a harmonious one and from what I can gather she was away from him more than she was with him!!
Alan - definitely Leary but so many different variations of the spelling!
Richard and Julia had two children - Richard Hamilton born 1857 and Mary Ann Hamilton born 1862. I've found them in 1871 and Julia died in 1872.
I found Richard in 1861 living as a lodger in Old Bridge Street but no sign of Julia, Richard (jnr) or Mary Leary.
Thank you both for your help.
KPM
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I've located where the Victory beer-house was on Eden Street. See this large scale town plan from 1865 and find the Friends Meeting House on the east side of the street (this is the northerly section of Eden Street running down from London Street/Clarence Street):
https://maps.nls.uk/view/229946586#zoom=5.2&lat=6461&lon=12221&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/229946586#zoom=5.2&lat=6461&lon=12221&layers=BT)
After using the 1861 census itinerary to infer that it was somewhere between the Friends Meeting House and the junction with Fairfield Road (Fairfield Passage in the census return) I found conclusive evidence in the 1867 Post Office directory (image below) where the aforementioned 1861 resident at the Victory, George Skilton is listed as a beer retailer at the penultimate property before the junction with Fairlfield Road (now Lady Booth Road).
Later on, this part of Eden Street was redeveloped as a Wesleyan Chapel, but as late as the 1910 Valuation Survey a Mrs Macrostie was at the property to the north of the chapel—number 72 Eden Street—and I've confirmed that she was the widow of the James Macrostie listed in the directory.
It’s all gone now: the corner lot is vacant and to the north is a Primark.
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Directory of Home Counties (includes Surrey) - 1855 Part 2
https://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/digital/collection/p16445coll4/id/361558/rec/5
No Surname Leary or Eden Street listed against "Beer retailers"
Part 1 of same lists several Victory pubs but nothing for Kingston.
Even Beer Houses with a name tended not to be named in Directories or on maps.
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HT, it’s possible that Eden Street was still Heathen Street at that date, as it is in the 1851 PO Directory, so off you go – trawl through that list again please!
Added: this site says that it had been renamed by 1854, so you are probably ok.
https://kingstonhistoryresearch.co.uk/eden-street-kingston-history/ (https://kingstonhistoryresearch.co.uk/eden-street-kingston-history/)
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AB, thanks for the tip.
The '55 PO Directory shows the following as" Beer retailer, Heathen Street, KoT" -
Joseph Frampton
William Hills
Samuel White
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Brilliant HT!
1851
Heathen Street
Joseph Frampton, beer shop keeper
and nicely annotated “The Victory”
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9 August 1856: West Middlesex Herald
KINGSTON
Town Hall
Before the Mayor etc.
Mary Ellis was summoned for keeping an unregistered common lodging-house—Fined 18s. 6d. including costs.
Joseph Frampton was fined 18s. 6d. including costs for a similar offence.
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Thank you both for your help. For what I've learned from the pages of the Surrey Comet, Mary Leary kept a very disreputable beer house and looks as if she was only land lady for a short period of time.
Thank you also for Map - that was really helpful. I havent been to Kingston for 40+ years and only then on short visits to family so dont know my way around. My Mum was born there and although in her 90s still recollects parts of the area but correctly believed the Victory had long since been knocked down and area redeveloped.
Really appreciate all your help.
Regards
KPM