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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: danielr on Monday 12 May 25 13:43 BST (UK)
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Hey all! Currently looking into my great-grandfather's first wife, Elsie Brian - born 1906 (aged 15 years, 3 months in the 1921 census) in Staffordshire. She relocated to Northumberland and in 1928, she married my great-grandfather Robert Robinson. They had a son Bobby (Robert) in 1930.
That is the last record I can find of Elsie: by the 1939 register, they were divorced (Robert's marital status states this) and Robert and Bobby were living with Robert's mother, grandmother and cousin. Elsie was not living with her mother Mary Ellen and step-father Alexander Wakenshaw (as she was in 1921 with her other siblings). I do not know if her father was still alive, her brothers Stephen, George and Bertie had moved to Australia, she wasn't living with her brother William, and I can't find anything other than birth records for her other siblings: Harry, Phyllis, Hilda, Sarah Ellen, Richard and Joseph.
Robert re-married in 1942 and my grandfather was the result of this marriage. He doesn't believe that he ever met Elsie as he did not know her name until I uncovered it through record searches; he's said that Bobby did visit Elsie but cannot remember where.
Any help/research advice is greatly appreciated!
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For anyone wanting to search Elsie's date of birth was the 21st March 1906.
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Richard Brian went to Calcutta 1925 (corrected year) he gave an address of 39 South Villas, Ashington Northumberland
UPDATED He returned 1926 gave the same address.
This is the same address Stephen gave when he went to Australia 1923.
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Hi Daniel,
If your grandfather remembers that Bobby visited Elsie, it's possible to establish a time frame to search for her death or a possible second marriage. Can you tell us what time frame we're talking about?
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This marriage looks promising.
Marriages Jun 1937
Brian Elsie Harris Stoke 6b 479
Harris Thomas Robinson Stoke 6b 479
Harris Thomas Brian Stoke 6b 479
Robinson Elsie Harris Stoke 6b 479
Can be found on 1939, Elsie's dob 23.3.1906
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Richard Brian was with Jane Ann Wiltshire nee Marsh 1921
GRO Index- children
Richard W Brian 1918 reg. Morpeth mother's maiden name Marsh
George W Brian 1919 same
Stephen Brian reg. 1921 Morpeth mother's maiden name Wiltshire (her previous married name not maiden name)
I haven't found a marriage.
Possible other children
William F 1923
Reginald 1924
Kenneth 1926
Stanley 1929.
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Jane Ann Marsh married Norris E Wiltshire 1914 reg. Morpeth
daughter Lydia Ann Wiltshire born 1914 mother's maiden name Marsh
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Name ****** Harris
Registration Date Jan 1938
[Feb 1938]
[Mar 1938]
Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration District Stoke on Trent
Inferred County Staffordshire
Mother's Maiden Name Brian
Volume Number 6b
Page number 363
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Well done, soflty softly :)
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As per 1939 war register. This birth was re-registered in 1937 after parents married.
Name ****** Harris
Registration Date Oct 1934
[Nov 1934]
[Dec 1934]
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District Battersea
Inferred County London
Mother's Maiden Name Brian
Page number D37
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For the back burner. Believe Thomas Harris died 1956 aged 51. Elsie Harris remarries John R Worsdale 1960. The 4 other's named are all born Worsdale with mmn Thorley, children from John R's 1st marriage.
Death
Name Elsie Worsdale
Death Age 61
Birth Date abt 1906
Registration Date Oct 1967
[Nov 1967]
[Dec 1967]
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District Stoke on Trent
Inferred County Staffordshire
Volume 9b
Page 597
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Name Elsie Worsdale
Gender Female
Death Age 61
Birth Date abt 1906
Death Date 7 Oct 1967
Obituary Date 10 Oct 1967
Obituary Place Stoke-On-Trent, Staffordshire, England
Newspaper Title Evening Sentinel
Spouse
John Reginald Worsdale
Children
Thomas
Ronald
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Wow, you guys are absolutely incredible! Thank you all so much!
Hi Daniel,
If your grandfather remembers that Bobby visited Elsie, it's possible to establish a time frame to search for her death or a possible second marriage. Can you tell us what time frame we're talking about?
He claims Bobby was in his mid-20s (rough guess at 1953-56) and had met his half-brother, but otherwise didn't say much about his visit. He knows very little about Elsie as Robert did not speak of her to my grandfather. He estimates that the divorce was in 1935, citing infidelity and Elsie was pregnant so the 1934 birth registry & 1937/8 re-registry makes a lot of sense.
Richard Brian was with Jane Ann Wiltshire nee Marsh 1921
GRO Index- children
Richard W Brian 1918 reg. Morpeth mother's maiden name Marsh
George W Brian 1919 same
Stephen Brian reg. 1921 Morpeth mother's maiden name Wiltshire (her previous married name not maiden name)
I haven't found a marriage.
Possible other children
William F 1923
Reginald 1924
Kenneth 1926
Stanley 1929.
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Jane Ann Marsh married Norris E Wiltshire 1914 reg. Morpeth
daughter Lydia Ann Wiltshire born 1914 mother's maiden name Marsh
Norris E[rnest] Wiltshire was a casualty during the Balkan Theatre either in September 1916 or March 1917. Also haven't been able to find a Jane-Richard marriage, but Jane was born 23 Oct 1896 and listed as 'Wiltshire' on the 1921 census, 'Marsh' on the 1928 electoral roll, but 'Brian' on the 1939 register and on FreeREG for her 1977 death. 1939 register shows "William Fredrick" and Kenneth, as well as 3 closed records, in the same household as Jane and Richard. Lydia was born on 4 Oct 1914 (both birth-dates as per Norris's pension ledger), appears to have married an Ernest Charlton and died in 1977.
For the back burner. Believe Thomas Harris died 1956 aged 51.
1939 register gives Thomas's DOB as 31st May 1904 so that could match! On the register, the son is listed as Thomas Harris Jr., born 22/09/1934 (d. 1982) and there is a closed record. Going off your obituary find, there was a Ronald Harris, mother's maiden name Brian, born in Stoke T. in 1938?