RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: flower fairy on Saturday 10 May 25 13:00 BST (UK)
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Hello you lovely people.
After discovering who my unknown great grandfather was via DNA about 2 years ago, I have been trying to find out his history. I know he left England in 1904 aboard the Sicilan for Halifax. He was 19. There are then various records I have found and one in particular I am interested in is the homestead grants register. In the register is the date April 1915 but I would like to know if this was the date he officially then owned the land or if he then had to work it for a few years before it became his.
If the former, is there a way to find out when it was actually registered and any paperwork/records to the effect.
His name was Matthew E Guest and he was born in Barrow Upon Furness in 1884 I hope all this makes sense.
Thank you :)
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Anyone who got a homestead had to work the land / build on it and live there to keep it permanently ("prove out")
In this case it does appear he proved out (looks like 1913, not 1915?)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89CK-Z27S?view=fullText&keywords=Matthew%20Ernest%20Guest&lang=en&groupId=TH-1961-35680-11657-43
However later he appears to have abandoned this land, which he had a mortgage on, and it went through civil court around 1920 as the person who had lent him the money was reclaiming the land to sell.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L9XM-KWBG?view=fullText&keywords=Matthew%20Ernest%20Guest&lang=en&groupId=TH-1942-39619-5742-6
Unfortunately the reality for most was that it was very difficult to make a economic go of it off the size/type of land provided by a homestead grant.
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Jorose, this is amazing thank you so much for finding this. It appears he did disappear for a while but I do know he was in the Royal Naval volunteer reserve during WW1 and was stationed here in England. Maybe the war got in the way of his plans. I may never know.
Thank you again,
Nicky
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Hello again.
I'm not sure if I just being stupid, but I am unable to find any records on familysearch for more homestead records. I have several people from the same family and would like to see theirs too.
Is it possible you could attach just the link so I can search them for myself. I have tried several search terms and not getting very far ???
Thank you for your time.
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The homestead index has changed layout...but you can start your search here then look for images.
https://search.saskarchives.com
You may already have this...
He's on the 1911 (June 14/15) census, (imm. 1901 or badly written 1904 - enumerators only had to write.. Don't think they often checked if they wrote WELL?)
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=16004022&ecopy=e002094356
His WW1 CEF files aren't available online for some reason?...
GUEST, Matthew Ernest #7577-M-7 Imperial Gratuities - No digital files
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.redirect?app=pffww&id=644921&lang=eng
An award 1914 - in the Royal Naval Reserve...Says awarded posthumously?
Matthew Ernest Guest Chief Motor Mechanic
Military Service Branch Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:682N-M9DW
His return in 1921 to Winnipeg to visit his father:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C3WB-YFJ
If you need any information from Winnipeg, let me know.
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Thank you so much. Just had a quick look at the homestead index but can't find his father and siblings who I know from ancestry had some. Will look again when I have more time.
No I didn't have that census return so thank you. Struggling to find him in 1906 although I know he arrived in 1904.
The imperial gratuities may be the same that I have from ancestry. He died in 1972 so not sure why it says posthumously?
Ans yes I have his return journey although he soon came back to Canada without his wife who I can only assume missed her family.
He migrated in 1904 and served as a motor boat mechanic in WW1. Part of this time, he was stationed in Falmouth and it was here I think that he met my great gran who was only 17 at the time. He was then stationed in Southampton where he married Winifred in 1918, not my great gran but also a lady from Falmouth.
They migrated soon after and had 2 children. My gran was born in 1918 and I can only assume Matthew never knew about her.
He returned to Canada on his own.
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And many thanks for your offer to help if I need anymore info from Winnipeg. I will certainly keep that in mind :)
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I see you already have a few posts for Matthew. Although a new question, you can always add further queries about the same subject to the same posts without starting a new one. You can use the search above (brown panel below the header/at top of page) Just type your username and the name you're researching to find & add to an established thread.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=873350.0
adding I mistakenly thought his father was at the address on Alexander. (missing a number)
Directory has: Matthew E motor mech h 1519 Alexander
1921 census M.E. Guest - rooming 1519 Alexander (still says married though)
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/Home/Record?app=census&IdNumber=67376270&ecopy=e002889310
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Here are the Manitoba land grants. Hope it works as their new databases suck wind and they have made the older reliable ones unstable. Ezra is easy to find
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/land/land-grants-western-canada-1870-1930/Pages/search.aspx
You can find his father's death - May 24,1935 West St. Paul - with birth March 11, 1857
https://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/DetailView.php
Sibling's marriages should also be in there...
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Thank you so much. I have found his other siblings too and possibly his father.
Is there a way to then find the actual images on familysearch as jorose found on the 1st answer? I seem to be going around in circles there. Not sure how to find particular people rather than having to scroll through the images, or is that the only way ???
Yes on subsequent census, he still lists himself as married.
I have been in contact with a grandson of his by ordering a death certificate of one of Matthew's
daughter's, he was the informant, and he has been very helpful.
He said that his gran, Winifred, had Matthew pronounced dead so she could remarry. She obviously didn't have contact with him again or at least made out she didn't.
From the homestead grant and further court documents, he obviously lost the land, probably due to WW1, and possibly never bought a home so became just a "roomer".
On the homestead grant he stated, whilst not working on the land, he was employed as a shipper by Hingston Smith arms in Winnipeg.
My one wish would be to try to find a photo of him. His grandson said his mother destroyed all photos after she remarried :(
Thanks again :)
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Sorry, no idea...there used to an image of a basic document & sometimes more with those online records many years ago, but none seem to come up anymore. Maybe FamSearch now owns the rights to the digitized records? I have not used that search. Perhaps Jorose can help you with more...
You do realize, though, that Manitoba and Saskatchewan are a good distance apart...? I think I remember telling a cousin in England you can fit a couple of United Kingdoms into just one of those Provinces. Yes, just checked and using total sguare footage each could hold two & a half U.K.s (Or both together could hold five) Yet the U.K. population is enormous in comparison to all of Canada. (1 and 3/4) I call it "Trying to put the envelope onto the postage stamp."
Your ancestor appears to have been a bit of a restless wanderer... not really able to settle down. For instance...did he travel to England on his own accord? You'd think there would be some residual record of his signup or training here in Canada. If 1914 is correct, he'd have been with the first contingent. Would they let him change forces that early? Could he have signed up in England with part of his gratuities being the trip back to Canada. Did you check to see if he went back on his own accord prior to 1914? I wonder if you can find out more about his military career from your side of the pond?
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Hi.
The royal naval records shows that he was serving in the UK from 1916-1918.
As far as I have discovered, after migrating to Canada in 1904, on his own, he didn't return until he joined the RN so there does seem to be a 2 year gap. His number in the RN was MB1512 and on the Imperial gratuities is 7577-M-7. Not sure if this would his service record for the CEF. I may reach out to them to find out more.
I do think he was very much a lone wanderer. In 1902 he was charged with wilful damage in his home town in England. I do also think there may have been a fallen out between him and his family as although he is mentioned in 1 brothers obit, he isn't in the other. His death was reported by a "comrade".
And I had no idea the distance between the Manitoba and Saskatchewan. I wonder why he went back to Manitoba in between? I do think this was possibly to stay with his parents.
I will have to carry on the research on him.
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I note that the Manitoba vital stats url I gave you is incorrect.
https://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/ Hit: "Search the Database" on left panel
Best of luck with further searches!
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Thank you.
I remembered one of the links I was originally sent in this thread, regarding him defaulting on his mortgage payments. The solicitors on behalf of the plaintiff who had lent him the money, wrote to the Department of Militia and Defence in Ottawa asking if they had any records of him serving, to which they replied saying no records of him serving with any unit of the CEF were found. They then wrote to the War office, Whitehall in London asking them the same. They replied saying " owing to the insufficient information supplied regarding Mr M. E. Guest it is regretted in will be impossible for this office to trace him2
The solicitors tried for several years to trace him before finally handing the land to the plaintiff.
It appears he either deliberately went missing, or returned to England to join the RN for whatever reason. Maybe by doing this, he thought he was untraceable. Who knows, I probably never will!!
Many thanks for all your help in this.
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Ah, so I was correct in that the gratuity was his re-entry by ship. We're a commonwealth, so must bend the knee. There were enough Guests in Canada to not prompt a search. Didn't he also fudge the last place he was living before leaving? Perhaps he did something out of line again to make him return to England.
Was thinking that you may want to look into his late medal. His category could have been overlooked after the war...or maybe he just left so quickly that they couldn't find him back in England either. Lots of stones to overturn to find some more truths about your ancestor. I think Rootschatters have found a great amount for you to piece together. Again, Happy Hunting!
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Regarding the homestead records, I think only some years and some locations are on familysearch. I don't think any from Manitoba are up. I access them through the fulltext search, generally: https://www.familysearch.org/search/full-text
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Thank you everyone. I have a lot to be getting on with ;)
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In case you'd not found her yet. His sister Alice Jane Heathcote, her husband & their three children. Use her name to see the marriage in the BMD URL I gave you (misspells found as Heathcobe & Guert)
re: 1921 Ericksdale...I imagine you've seen this one by now...looking further down the page
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tsc/
The first 4 entries after their name are section township range meridian
I see that Gertrude Olive remarried? (1905: Ernest Warren Andrews )
I noticed the property in Kindersley had an alkali Lake, making it impossible to grow/farm.
perhaps that's why he defaulted & took off (Not that it matters much here, but also noted that the mortgagee JOHN EDWARD STICKNEY was "of Winnipeg in the Province of Manitoba", but 1913/14 on says R.L.Purden of Winnipeg)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9CK-Z2B9
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99XM-KW2Q
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This is really odd but I am just getting 403-access denied.
I will try again later but each time I click on any previous links, that's all I'm getting ???
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They are busy replacing (ruining) their perfectly good previous databases...(as predicted) Leaving well enough alone/ If it ain't broken, don't fix it / are not their mottos. I asked them back when they threatened the updates that this will render all genealogy site's urls useless.
The site goes down constantly. Should work now, unless you have some odd settings blocking it.
If not, just enter her married name here (no middle name), searching in Manitoba.
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/census/index
I noticed the property in Kindersley had an alkali Lake, making it impossible to grow/farm. One document says he's of "Aaron, Sask"
perhaps that's why he defaulted & took off (Not that it matters much here, but also noted that the mortgagee JOHN EDWARD STICKNEY was "of Winnipeg in the Province of Manitoba", but 1913/14 on says R.L.Purden of Winnipeg)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9CK-Z2B9
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99XM-KW2Q
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Thank you. It's still showing the same although I have definitely looked at this site before. We are away tomorrow for the weekend so will look again after the weekend.
I had noticed the different names. I'm going through all the pages and making notes so picked that up.
Many thanks again 😀
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Four of those five censuses are available on Family Search...
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tsg/