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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Rowan Tree on Friday 09 May 25 20:25 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Could anyone help decipher the date of a baptism for me?
The transcription on Ancestry might be correct, but I'd really value a second opinion.
Anne GIBSON
21 December 1744
Eastham, St. Mary the Virgin, Cheshire
Father: Thomas GIBSON
Mother: Martha
The reason I'd particularly value a second opinion is because I've got what appears to be 3 siblings of the same parents, all baptised at the same church, but the baptism dates are very close together. Too close together.
The parents are Thomas and Martha GIBSON.
The church is St. Mary the Blessed Virgin, Eastham, Cheshire.
The 3 (possible) siblings are as follows:
Thomas baptised 21st March 1743 (incorrectly transcribed as 1742)
Anne baptised 21st December 1744
Thomas baptised 11th January 1745 (incorrectly transcribed as 1744)
Other potential children from Thomas and Martha GIBSON as follows:
Mary 1737 @ Holy Cross, Woodchurch, Cheshire
Catherine 1750
Martha 1755 - 1755
Catherine & Martha both Eastham, St. Mary
Any thoughts on how or if these siblings fit together would be appreciated.
Many thanks, Rowan Tree :)
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Here's an image of the date of Anne's baptism.
Anne is the middle line.
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I think you may have posted the wrong image or given the wrong info: isn’t this Thomas?
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I think you may have posted the wrong image or given the wrong info: isn’t this Thomas?
One of the Thomas' and Anne are on the same page of the register.
But you're right, that is one of the Thomas'. Apologies :-[
These baptisms are making my head spin.
Would you mind offering your opinion on both Anne and the Thomas that appear on the same page?
These three siblings (if they really are siblings and if there's even really 3 of them) are foxing me.
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The images at FindMyPast are less confusing because they haven't chopped up annual records into separate christenings, marriages and burials.
Thomas (March 25th) I think is 1742. The last two digits of the year are clearly different from each other and there are entries where the 2 in that style is followed by a d (for second or twenty-second).
The other Thomas and Anne are only separated by two other entries so regardless of what years they are, they are very close together (December, and the following January). And there is clearly a 1744 at the top of the page, although it is preceded by something illegible (even worse on the FindMyPast image).
I can’t see a Thomas Gibson burial at Eastham that might point to the re-use of the name Thomas. Perhaps the two Thomases are the same and he was baptised again for some reason. A**y page 113 starts with a statement about previous negligence so perhaps there was some question about the validity of the first baptism?
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Compilation of images in support of year 1742
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The "year" reflects the pre 1752 calendar change when the year ran from 25 March (Lady Day) to 24 Mar the following year.
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The actual parish register is available on Familysearch.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XCQQ-1QR?cat=819878&i=953&lang=en&cc=1614792
But it is of little help. As the complaint in the BTs says, there were no entries made between 1737 and 1767. The new vicar then added retrospective details of a few families, the same as shown in image 113 of the BTs.
If the previous vicar didn't keep a register, how did he manage to submit the BTs each year? If he compiled them from memory or rough notes then it's quite possible he made a few mistakes. Although it's also possible that there was a register but it didn't get passed on to the new vicar.
David
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Alan, hanes teulu & David,
Thanks so much for your invaluable comments.
I'm getting a much clearer picture of what was going on in Eastham and a better general understanding of parish registers during this time period.
I think I now understand why there are unexpected gaps between siblings, why siblings are too close together, and why there are duplicate baptisms with the same name and no corresponding burial. In short, this parish register is on the sketchy/challenging side. I'm still very thankful that it exists, though.
I wouldn't be surprised if some baptism weren't recorded, some recorded twice, and others added to the register from memory with mistakes.
The pattern of siblings I was uncovering just didn't make sense, but now I know why. I'm now left with something of a dilemma...
I'm wondering how to add people and events to my tree. With your help, I now understand the numerals in the register and the calendar (March to March). I'm mulling this one over as I type...
One (or both if there was only one - which I now suspect) of the Thomas' is my ancestor. As this is a time period way before both the census and civil registration, I've no other sources to cross reference dates of birth/ages. I might have to make a guess/assumption in some instances. For example; I'm not going to add a second Thomas to my tree.
I'm very grateful for Roots Chat. Being able to come here and pose my queries and questions is just brilliant. I come away with new knowledge and understanding.
Thanks again, Rowan Tree :)
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The Mary Gibson Woodchurch baptism 1737 in opening post -
FindMyPast marriage (image/transcript) -
Tho Gibson of Landican, Husbandman and Martha Sampson/Lampson? of Birkenhead were married by banns the third day of January 1736/37
FindMyPast baptism (image/transcript)
Mary, daughter of Thomas Gibson of Landican, Husbandman, by Martha his wife bapt 31 Aug 1737
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Eastham baps.
Looking at the original of the Thomas Gibson, bap 11 Jan 1744/45, I cannot make out the given name or can someone see "Thomas"? Father = farmer.
The same applies to the baptism of Catharine, 24 Dec 1744 - can't make out given name. Father " = lab'r & farmer?
Thomas Gibson, 21 Mar 1742/43 - father = "yeo"?
Catharine Gibson, 17 Jul 1750, father = "Husbandman"
Martha 22 Sep 1755, father = "Husbandman"
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I took it on faith but I think I can see the ‘T’, part of the ‘h’ possibly the ‘a’ and then finally I can just make out the ‘s’.
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Agreed - i think we have to go with "Thomas"
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I took it on faith but I think I can see the ‘T’, part of the ‘h’ possibly the ‘a’ and then finally I can just make out the ‘s’.
That's exactly what I can make out also. Thomas feels like a good fit. I'd also assumed that when the BT was made, the name was clearer and more obviously Thomas.
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The Mary Gibson Woodchurch baptism 1737 in opening post -
FindMyPast marriage (image/transcript) -
Tho Gibson of Landican, Husbandman and Martha Sampson/Lampson? of Birkenhead were married by banns the third day of January 1736/37
FindMyPast baptism (image/transcript)
Mary, daughter of Thomas Gibson of Landican, Husbandman, by Martha his wife bapt 31 Aug 1737
This is my guys - Thanks, hanes teulu.
Looking at the image, I feel it is Sampson rather than Lampson, but I can see why someone would misread the name as Lampson.
I've been looking for potential baptisms for both Thomas and Martha, but nothing has come up yet.
I find Thomas GIBSON and Martha SAMPSON quite interesting. This line of my family ends up in Chadderton and Oldham. It's only the next county (Lancashire) but it feels a world away.
Job ASPEY is born in Oscroft, Tarvin. Job is the great-grandson of Thomas and Martha btw. Job is widowed very young in Oscroft and then moves to the Bidston/Birkenhead area where he marries again (my ancestor). Job raises a large family in the Bidston/Birkenhead area, which echoes where Thomas GIBSON and Martha SAMPSON were living when they married.
For whatever reason (possibly work), Job, wife Martha nee DAVIES, and most of their 13 children (none of which died as children) up sticks, and head to Chadderton.
Job never appears on a Lancashire census because he dies in Cowhill, Chadderton in 1878.
Job's mum was a Gibson born in Eastham.