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Census Lookups General Lookups => Census and Resource Discussion => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Topic started by: lcsnor on Friday 09 May 25 18:51 BST (UK)

Title: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Friday 09 May 25 18:51 BST (UK)
I'm wondering if anyone can help me. 

I was banking on the 1921 census as one more possible clue about my Gt Gt Grandmother Martha Ann Parsons, nee Kieley, but I can't find her.

Martha lived much of her life in Bristol, and died June 1922. 
She appears to have always gone by the name 'Martha'.
She was born around 1847, and would likely say either London, or Ireland, or Limerick
In 1911 she's living alone at 67 Lower Ashley Rd, Bristol. (her husband died in 1907)

She's been a brick wall for me as for many years she claimed to have been born in London, but later says she was born in Limerick, Ireland.  I was hoping that maybe she might drop some little kernel of useful information in the 1921 census but I can't find her.

I've checked the 1921 census records for all of her children and can't find her with them.  I'm wondering if she may have been in an institution or hospital?  I think it's highly likely she's in Bristol in 1921 as she was buried there in 1922.

If anyone has any ideas or suggestions I'd really appreciate the help!

Thanks in advance!

Louise
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Friday 09 May 25 19:38 BST (UK)
I'd suggest an institution. The patients in the Fishponds mental hospital are listed under initials only - but can;t see an MP that would fit.

Have you got the death cert - if so, what's the address given on there for her?
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: ALAMO2008 on Friday 09 May 25 21:24 BST (UK)
You are assuming she could Read and Write to complete the Census aged 74

It wasn't her that filled the 1911 Census she had help to complete it and they did it badly

So it may not have been completed at all like my Grandmothers
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Friday 09 May 25 21:43 BST (UK)
Good call Mabel - I knew someone would help me out here.

I do have her death certificate.  It gives her address as 52 Lower Ashley Rd, but her place of death as 'Snowdon Buildings' Fishponds with a part of cause of death being 'Senile Dementia'.

No hope then of any further helpful information from her in 1921. 

Thanks for helping me figure this out.

Louise
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Friday 09 May 25 22:01 BST (UK)
Alam - I think she could write - she appears to have signed the marriage register, but I understand that may have been an issue. 
Thanks for your insights.
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 09 May 25 22:11 BST (UK)
Maybe Snowdon Road Hospital, Fishponds?

See:  https://archives.bristol.gov.uk/records/Pamphlet/1838
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 09 May 25 22:41 BST (UK)
Have you found 52 Lower Ashley Road in 1921?
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Friday 09 May 25 23:34 BST (UK)
mckha489
I don't see her in the batch I can find when I search on 'Lower Ashley Rd', but I'm having trouble finding the specific address - will take a bit more time to search and hopefully find it!

Thank you
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Friday 09 May 25 23:37 BST (UK)
Thanks KGarrad - I did see that record in the archives, and think that's most likely where she was when she died.

However, when I search on Snowdon Rd. in the 1921 census, no-one that seems to match her is there.

Will have to spend some more time digging around Lower Ashley Rd I think.

Thanks!
Louise
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Saturday 10 May 25 00:07 BST (UK)
I just realized that in 1921, my gt granddparents are living at 52 Lower Ashley Rd, which is given as Martha's home address on the death certificate.  Louisa Mountjoy (Martha's daughter), and her husband Nicholas are their with their 6 children, but no mention of Martha.

Maybe safe to assume that Martha is already institutionalized.

Thanks everyone for your input and insights!

Louise

Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 10 May 25 08:46 BST (UK)
2 points:

1. Stapleton Workhouse was at Manor Road. But by the junction with Snowden Road.
2. Glenside Hospital, formerly Bristol Lunatic Asylum, was just to the west of the workhouse.

Also, Snowdon House (in the same area) was a mother-and-baby home, But not relevant to your query!
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 10 May 25 12:58 BST (UK)
deleted
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Saturday 10 May 25 18:51 BST (UK)
Thanks KGarrad - looks likely that she was institutionalized - I'll do a little more digging around those two possibilities in that area.

Appreciate everyone's help!
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 10 May 25 20:48 BST (UK)
In 1861 there is at New Orphan House No 1 Ashley Down, Clifton, an M.A.K age 15 , orphan,  born London,

I see in the marriage allegation/bond William declares Martha Ann is an orphan with no other appointed guardian. Interesting he went to the trouble in those circumstances considering she was 19. One would have thought they would have just lied and said she was of age. **

There is a thread about the orphanages that says (at least in 2008) there was a small museum and excellent records.  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=326423.9

https://www.mullers.org/orphanrecords

** but now I have read the whole thread linked above perhaps not so surprising.
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Saturday 10 May 25 22:48 BST (UK)
KGarrad

I've always had the opinion that they were married by license because of his being in the Marines and possibly not having much certainty about where he would be.  It is interesting that they say she has no parents on the license but I thought that was likely easier than dealing with her parents perhaps being alive still in Ireland. In the marriage register they name her father (Richard) and it doesn't say 'deceased'. As you say, why not just claim to be 21, but we'll never know the answer to that one!!

I would never have thought she'd be in Bristol as an orphan in 1861, but it's definitely an interesting possibility isn't it - particularly since its says she's born London.  I had always worked on the theory that they met in London with her being recently arrived from Ireland, then after a time in Plymouth ended up in Bristol because he's from nearby Box/Bath.

I have given Martha so much of my time and would love to know more about her! Maybe this is the link?  Mullers' Orphanage is just a mile from Lower Ashley Rd.  I've made a request to see whether they may have any helpful information in their archive.

Thank you!

Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 10 May 25 23:35 BST (UK)
Do report back! 🤞

Added to say.. it is a common event here on rootschat that a father is not put down as deceased on the marriage certificate, it’s all to do with the way the question is posed. (Obviously the vicar didn’t read the license)
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Sunday 11 May 25 03:09 BST (UK)
Yes mckha489 - I have a few marriage certificates like that.

I've never been able to find any trace of the father (Richard Keiley, carpenter) in England, although I've never looked at Bristol previously. I do see there's a Richard Kelley death in 1855 in Bristol - so maybe?!
Will be interesting to see what the orphan archives can tell me.

Thanks for your insight!
Louise
Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 11 May 25 04:03 BST (UK)
That 1855 death is of a 2 yr old

Title: Re: 1921 Census - missing Gt Gt Grandmother
Post by: lcsnor on Sunday 11 May 25 14:49 BST (UK)
Well that will show me not to get ahead of myself!!