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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: curiousgeorge1 on Friday 09 May 25 18:21 BST (UK)
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I have the RAF service record for a radar mechanic. I am unfamiliar with service records.
I wonder if there is anyone around who has knowledge of the life of a radar mechanic. I have no reason to assume deployment was anywhere other than the UK. He does seem to have moved around a lot, as in months or even weeks at different locations. I wonder if this was the norm.
I am reluctant to post the entire record as I don't want to overwhelm if there are specific questions I could respond to.
Some locations mentioned which I have identified are Greystone, White Waltham, Poling and Malvern to name just a few.
Many references to MSSU, mobile signals servicing units. I presume these are exactly what they sound like.
Any information gratefully received
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Hopefully RootsChat member rafcommands (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=57059) will drop by shortly with a more detailed answer, as he is by far the most knowledgeable current member on RAF matters. But I think you are right in assuming that a member of a mobile servicing unit would be moved around between different locations. Radar systems were constantly being upgraded as the war progressed and this would have required radar mechanics to fit new modules or assemblies fairly frequently, in addition to the routine maintenance necessary to the equipment in specification.
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Hi,
If he went to Malvern, this was probably, TRE for training. I suggest you try searching for TRE Malvern, there is quite a lot on line now.
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Thank you both for your replies
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This may be of interest. Following up as my father was at TRE and there is lots of new stuff about.
https://mraths.org.uk/?page_id=580
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RAF Service Record Form 543 records the formations (units) posted to.
Indirectly this shows locations if posted to a Station eg RAF Poling. If the entry is a unit eg XXX MSSU then it does not detail where the unit was located or moved during the time a person was posted to it.
You need to look at the ORB (Form 540/541) at the National Archives to follow unit moves.
The exception to this is if the unit moved between home command and overseas or overseas between Air Head Quarters control.
Ross
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Thank you for these replies. I have no reason to think there was any posting outside the UK. I suppose I am surprised at the amount of moving around.
Perhaps someone could have a look and confirm that the movements in the UK were as expected.
RAFcommands I believe we have spoken in the past about James Battersby who appears on the Runnymede Memorial. You were very helpful.
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Thought we had crossed paths before - nice to continue.
Between the wars Fighter Command in particular was leading the way in examining ways to maximise their force.
Treasury budget decreased and the cost of the more modern monoplane fighters was increasing as well as complexity reducing the flying hours between servicing.
Dowding was one of the rare staff officers that had a technical background that gave an understanding of equipment capability both current and projected.
To lessen the impact of reducing fighter aircraft numbers and decreasing availability due to servicing requirements he led the way in using RDF/RADAR to virtually eliminate need for standing patrols and vector his fighter force to where needed.
This step in diverting Fighter Command spending into ground equipment and systems RDF/Filter Rooms/Operations Rooms/Movement Control/Observer Corps rather than airframes was a force multiplier.
As a result there was an extensive equipment system that needed skilled technical support at the start of the war eg RDF and Chain Home. As war progressed the fixed installations grew in scope Chain Home not just east/south coast but all round UK and capability increased with addition of Chain Home Low and Extra Low stations.
Again the number of servicing staff trained was low so constant movement to where needed at the moment was the answer.
Once the RAF restarted expeditionary warfare then transportable versions of the fixed installations and support/operations rooms were needed attached to local combined arms formations.
Todays buzz words of flexibile agile etc all started to the technical RAF of the Dowding era.
Ross
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Thanks for this. Before I started looking more carefully I had no idea that the technology was so new and being developed so quickly. Fascinating.
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Looking at the record - the normal WM life of Posting and Attachments (@ or A)
In these cases he was still on the strength of unit and would return - just responsibility for pay/messing/training transferred to the named formation. At the end of attachment the responsibility was officially returned.
eg 307 MSSU
attached to RAF Station Poling
attached to Rye
attached to HMS Dundonald
attached to Malvern
etc all while still with No.307 MSSU.
Have a look at Special courses and reclassification boxes to the right - usually you can match some of the attachment dates to new skills and exams.
Ross
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Oh - he did serve outside the UK
Disembarked Continent was when No.307 MSSU moved to Europe from Home Force.
France and followed advance after breakout with No.2 TAF No.83 Group
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7159576
Ross
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I did notice the 'disembkd cont' and wondered if that was what it sounded like. I will look at the training.
Do you happen to know to what the last entry refers : 6.B.S.R.U?
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No.6 Base Signals Repair Unit - BAFO Germany
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4101384
Ross
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Many thanks. So many abbreviations.
I have included a second excerpt of the record. I would be grateful for any insight.
I know I haven't given you any dates but I can't quite make sense of the dates following DISEMBKD CONT.
We guessed there was a German connection because we had maps of Britain printed in German and books of how to conduct oneself in Germany.
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These work best when related to dates of postings.
However
Promotions, reclassifications etc
(Note - Classifications are AC2, AC1, LAC rising in pay and authority/standing then moving to Rank - Cpl, Sgt, F/Sgt and W/O. This is the normal understood split of Other Ranks seniority but Regulations use Rank and Classification as blanket for both)
So on entry and on the understanding of being able to pass initial trade test given classification of AC2
Reclassification to AC1 is by minimum time (6 months as AC2 and both trade test and education standard met for AC1) - he remuster examined for trade Radar Mechanic on 5/12/41 and passed (listed in Special Qualification and Mustering.
Reclassification to LAC is mostly gained skills but also OC recommendation along with vacancy in numbers of LAC on strength of unit.
He jumps Cpl rank and is Temporary Sgt - eg trialled to see if effective in rank can be with or without pay.
Although Promotions does not record when he was made full Sgt it was between 31/12/43 and 31/12/44.
In character and proficiency columns
Usually done on major trade change and 31st Dec each year.
31/12/41 - reclassification to AC1 not fully filtered down to unit so listed as AC2
31/12/42 - LAC review not copied over by records clerk
31/12/43 - Temp/Sgt review now not just on own character but also proficiency in trade supervision of others
31/12/44 - Full Sgt
31/12/45 - Full Sgt
On entry trade given was ACH/GD u/t Wireless Mechanic - bit of a probationary pigeon hole as Aircrafthand General duties for pay until a few weeks into the system and pay on trade/classification kicks in.
Mustering as noted before but with change of trade name post war from Radar Mechanic to Radar Fitter (trade group II) - an admin restructuring of trade names rather than a skill change for the man.
Ross
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Remember I said you need the ORB for movements of a unit.
The Form 543 only records when posted to a unit and if the unit changes regional command.
Ross
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Thank you very much for your interest and information. Lots to think about.
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One more question if I may.
Could you help me read the posting above AMES Greystone. I have got as far as
79 Sq Wing Ames Kilheal. I wonder if you recognise that location.
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curiousgeorge,
If you aren't already familiar with it, you might find this website useful for background (mostly technical) information on WW2 Radar: The Radar Pages (http://www.radarpages.co.uk/index.htm)
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Thank you
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Air Ministry Experimental Station Kilkeel
RAF Kilkeel Northern Ireland - No.79 (Signals) Wing Administered Chain Home Station
See this for descriptions, map location - for the other NI locations he was posted to as well.
https://frontlineulster.co.uk/radar-in-northern-ireland-1939-1945/
also Observer Corps layout
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=kilkeel&_cr=air&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv
Ross
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Thanks again
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My pleasure.
Ross
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You have all been so helpful.
I wonder if I could ask for some more information regarding the excerpt I posted earlier.
Specifically the early training before he went to Kilkeel. I have worked out some of it, F, H etc. I am hoping that H means normal transfer and F means finished training.
The references to 2Wq 11 RC and 1 BC have got me a little flummoxed. There is no reference to location associated with these abbreviations.
The period in question is May 1941 to Feb 1942
He got to Cardton in April, and got to this 2Wq reference in May 1941 before going to Kilkeel in Feb 1942
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Specifically the early training before he went to Kilkeel. I have worked out some of it, F, H etc. I am hoping that H means normal transfer and F means finished training.
Nope - H/Home and F/Field
RAF referred to units located UK (except NI) as Home Force. Rest of world including NI as Field Force. A carry over from 1918 when Home was training and Field was all the expeditionary forces
The references to 2Wq 11 RC and 1 BC have got me a little flummoxed. There is no reference to location associated with these abbreviations.
No 11 Recruits Centre, Skegness (his intake was assigned to No.2 Wing (like house names at Harry Potter school)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7160740
No.1 Balloon Centre, Kidbrook
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7159186
Ross
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Thank you so much for us. I was heading down the wrong rabbit hole.
Initially confused as to why NI was not home but now I see what you have written. Except I read Kilkeel as being HH and Greystone and White Waltham as being F.
I will follow these up. Thank you again.
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HH is Headquarters Holding eg manpower reserve for the Command located on a Unit but not of unit ownership.
F for a UK unit can also be an indicator that posted to unit but assigned to Field unit either working up or being administered by the UK unit.
In the scale of things it means little - just the admin clerks finding a cubbyhole in existing systems to cater for a rapidly expanding admin world as RAF ramped up to war footing from peace.
Ross
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Thanks again.
One more question if I may. I'll try to make it the last one.
He qualified as a radar mechanic in Dec 1941 when he was promoted to AC1. Was this likely if he was at either Skegness or No 1 Balloon Centre leading up to this date. If read it correctly Skegness was basic training and Kidbrook was more associated with barrage balloons.
Once again, I appreciate all your help
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In special qualifications you get the date he passed his trade exam 5/12/41.
This was the point he remustered in trade to Radar Mechanic - The cropped parts of the posting record you have uploaded does not include dates so I cannot confirm where his trade training took place but I suspect it was at No.1 BC.
Kidbrook pre-war was an RAF Depot where a multitude of tradesmen passed through in a similar fashion to Uxbridge - 1938 and Munich Crisis saw the RAF expand RAFVR and depots were planned as the embodiment centres for kitting reserves on call up and bringing them up to current advances in trade since they had left RAF.
In London the biggest RAFVR intake was to the Balloon Squadrons and so No.1 Balloon Centre became the largest permanent formation at Kidbrook and this was a handy formation to provide messing, training, admin, pay etc for the early odd bod war intakes.
As war went on the training functions at Kidbrook were used as cadre to spawn off specialised Schools of Technical Training/Recruit Centres for establishment at new locations for the duration.
Ross
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Thank you for this, you have helped me confirm the correct rabbit hole.
Most sources point to 1 Balloon Centre as being purely barrage balloons but I have my man there from 16 May 1941 until he goes to Kilkeel in February 1942.
As you point out he passed his trade exam in December 1941 so the dates point to him having qualified at the Balloon Centre.
I don't have any dates to differentiate between Skegness & Kidbrooke.
He left Cardton in April 1941, briefly passed through Skegness and by May 1941 he was at the Balloon centre where he qualified in December and was posted to Kilkeel February 1942.
Thanks again for all your help. I was thrown off track by the Balloon Centre but you have come up with a plausible explanation.
Added
After a little more digging,
"A very important unit based at Kidbrooke was No 2 Installation Unit. From 1939, this was responsible for constructing, maintaining and repairing all of the Chain Home radar station masts around the UK coasts throughout WW-2"
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If you look at units created at Kidbrooke then lodged in the early years you will find No.2 Installation Unit.
This was the embryo unit that built, calibrated and maintained the Chain Home stations on the surrounding coast.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=2%20installation%20unit&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv
He was not destined to be posted to this unit but it shows RADAR trades located here which also will have included instruction in the early embodiments.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Kidbrooke
Ross
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Thank you for your patience.
Happy to put this one to rest.
It has been a fascinating foray into the rapid development of radar during WW2. Sounds like it could have been a logistical nightmare, keeping up with new technology, expansion of stations and implications for maintenance & repair and oversight.
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Just in case it's of intertest, by looking back to 2008 on Google Streetview you can see the remnants of the RAF Balloon Command buildings at Kidbrooke, here (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4615127,0.030578,3a,90y,64.07h,67.74t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sbaajoVEVV26eRSAaQkFZaA!2e0!5s20080601T000000!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D22.25757570941788%26panoid%3DbaajoVEVV26eRSAaQkFZaA%26yaw%3D64.06817513392343!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI1MDYwNC4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D) on the North side of the A2 Rochester Way Relief Road which was built in the late 1980s. The buildings were all knocked down about 10 years ago and today it's a light industrial estate.
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Andy, please will you post the Streetview link to this? I do not know the district at all but I would like to see the buildings because I suspect that the same style will have been used across the country. I have found some similarities in plans of these sites on postwar revisions of the OS 6-inch, but they are without labels because they were disused.
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Molly
RAF Museum has airfield/depot record plans for all RAF Stations - you can view them at the Hendon Reading Room for non active Stations.
Usually there is a general layout with annotated index to both use and drawing number of each building.
For example - Ibsley Aerodrome
https://nfknowledge.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/371.jpg
Ross
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Andy, please will you post the Streetview link to this? I do not know the district at all but I would like to see the buildings because I suspect that the same style will have been used across the country. I have found some similarities in plans of these sites on postwar revisions of the OS 6-inch, but they are without labels because they were disused.
Molly, the streetview link is embedded in the word 'here' after Kidbrooke. If you mean a link to google earth (that is to say, the satellite image of the site) then I don't think these are available going back in time like the streetview images. Perhaps someone can correct me if I am wrong about that.
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Here's the site on a post war map: National Library of Scotland (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.9&lat=51.46455&lon=0.02443&layers=173&b=1&o=)
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Sorry Andy, I had not realised the link was there. I had already decided that was the probable location on the 1948 6-inch map, but your later 1:2500 edition actually says "RAF Station". It must have remained in use for some purpose, so survived longer than most. I had got lost on the ground with Streetview!
Thank you, Ross. Some time ago there was an uploaded history of the station at Sutton on Hull, which served the city of Hull, but it has been taken down. I took some copies from it, including a plan. Unfortunately I am unlikely to be able to visit Hendon.
(ADDED: Sutton on Hull from the Wayback Machine https://web.archive.org/web/20160422072514/http://www.17balloons.co.uk/ )
The one I am actually interested in is Bishopbriggs, which served Glasgow, where my father was posted for about 14 months in 1940-41. It is shown on this map:
Georeferenced Maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland (nls.uk) (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.0&lat=55.92316&lon=-4.19683&layers=258&b=ESRIWorld&o=100)
(The site is now a prison.)