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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: recorder on Thursday 08 May 25 16:31 BST (UK)

Title: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Thursday 08 May 25 16:31 BST (UK)
How do I trace a possible birth in 1938 (possibly 1937) of a baby who did not survive, please? I am told there was an entry in the Liverpool Echo BMDs.  Any information would be most welcome.

Recorder
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: Blue70 on Thursday 08 May 25 16:56 BST (UK)
"View 3 pages FREE when you register to help you get started"

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/account/register


C
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 08 May 25 18:05 BST (UK)
Was Ethel's maiden name Naden?  Married 1930 but only one live birth showing in 1940.  Anything earlier may have been a stillbirth hence no birth/death registration
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: gc1 on Thursday 08 May 25 18:06 BST (UK)
Could this be it on Family Search

Name   Wilson
Sex   Unknown
Residence Place   Liverpool, England
Death Place   England
Father's Name   Sidney Wilson
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Ethel Irene Wilson
Mother's Sex   Female
Event Type   Burial
Event Date   2 July 1938
Event Place   Liverpool, Lancashire, England, United Kingdom
Cemetery   Anfield Cemetery
Source Details   pg 5493 cn 150430

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:CJZM-SL6Z?lang=en
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: AlanBoyd on Friday 09 May 25 07:41 BST (UK)
23 June 1938 Newspaper: Liverpool Echo

Birth Announcement
[my reading is that it says “a son (stillborn)”]
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 09 May 25 07:58 BST (UK)
The Stillbirths Register started in 1937.
It hasn't been indexed, and is not available online.
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Friday 09 May 25 10:03 BST (UK)
My thanks to Blue70, CaroleW, gc1, AlanBoyd & KGarrod for your speedy and helpful replies.  Your help is much appreciated.

Can I pose another question please.  Can you help me find John Wilson, nephew of Mr & Mrs W and son of Albert Wilson, Mr Sidney W's brother. John was born about 1936, mother Catherine or similar. John would be in his early 20s when he died.
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 09 May 25 11:27 BST (UK)
No idea if this is right but ..

Marriages Jun 1929   (>99%)
STEPHENSON    Catherine    Wilson    W. Derby    8b   761   
Wilson    Albert    Stephenson    W.Derby    8b   761


Births Mar 1935   
Wilson    P. (Female)  Stephenson    Liverpool S.    8b   114   
Births Jun 1936 
Wilson    John    Stephenson    Liverpool S.    8b   130   
Births Dec 1937   
Wilson    Jean    Stephenson    Liverpool N.    8b   621

Albert born 1897, (is that the right year for your man?)  John & Jean are all in the 1939 register.
Seems Catherine & P.  are still redacted

It is possible the eldest daughter is still alive so I haven’t put her full name.
Birth announcement

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/8754ec88-603f-4c21-ac1b-9ad883b00dae


Do you know where John died?
In Lancashire between 1950 & 1960 are three the right age

Deaths Sep 1953   
WILSON    John    17    Wigan    10f   583    
Deaths Jun 1958   
WILSON    John    21    Manchester    10e   40    
Deaths Jun 1960   
WILSON    John    23    Crosby    10c   65

Small mention of circumstances of the 1958 in newspaper but I cannot, so far, see a notice identifying parents.
Still looking for the others

Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: mckha489 on Friday 09 May 25 12:03 BST (UK)
Jean marriage registered in Crosby 1964, so perhaps the 1960 death is John??

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/8c09affc-17ee-4317-adef-a9a2a858e433
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Friday 09 May 25 19:46 BST (UK)
Thanks mckha, I am investigating; looks promising.
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Tuesday 03 June 25 16:49 BST (UK)
mckha identified correctly the John Wilson I was seeking. He died 12 April 1960 in Crosby. However, the death certificate refers to the informant ' Cornelius Bolton coroner for County of Lancaster. Inquest held 14th April 1960.' What are the chances of me finding the background to his death or any other information of interest?
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 03 June 25 20:39 BST (UK)
Thanks for the update.

I cannot see a newspaper for Crosby digitised for 1960.
I would try the closest library to the area. Although Google isn’t being very encouraging about that.  There are some CH at FindMyPast and BNA but not for 1960

Or do the Crosby Herald maintain a microfilm record?

But perhaps by 1960 it is getting to the time when they didn’t publish details like that?
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: KGarrad on Tuesday 03 June 25 20:53 BST (UK)
Maybe try the Liverpool Echo?
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: Blue70 on Tuesday 03 June 25 23:33 BST (UK)
You could contact the Lancashire Record Office and ask them about the inquest and ask if the record survives anywhere. You may need to contact a coroner's office to ask them if you can view the record:-

https://archivecat.lancashire.gov.uk/calmview/contact.aspx


C
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: frian on Wednesday 04 June 25 16:09 BST (UK)
I was interested to read this entry about Sidney Wilson.  Is he the Sidney Wilson born 1901 Liverpool, the son of Thomas Wilson and Margaret Parkinson (who in turn were married at St. Cyprian's, Edge Hill, Liverpool in 1884)?  That Sidney also had a brother Albert (and siblings William, Eleanor and Bessie). If so they appear on my tree as descendants of the Wilson family of Gosforth, West  Cumberland.  A whole group of them went to Liverpool late 18th cent / early 19th to work as tallow chandlers and their descendants are obviously still there - I doubt if they are still working as tallow chandlers......
Ian
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Thursday 05 June 25 11:27 BST (UK)
mckha, K Garrad & Blue,

Thanks for your recommendations as to the way forward. I shall certainly try at them all.

I do appreciate your help.
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Thursday 05 June 25 11:49 BST (UK)
Dear Frian - I was fascinated to read your note. The answer to your question is yes. Over the half century I have been burrowing into family history aided by Rootschat, Lpl fhs, Ancestry etc etc etc I thought I had a reasonable understanding of the family (other than those who went to Australia and America. My knowledge goes back into the late 1700s.

Please let me know asap where you think our histories may join. I will be happy to help but time is passing rather quickly.
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: Tickettyboo on Thursday 05 June 25 16:16 BST (UK)

1960 Probate Calendar England & Wales
Wilson John of 40 Alexandra Road Great Crosby Lancashire
died 12 April 1960 Administration Liverpool 28 July to Catherine Wilson widow
Effects £147 7s 9d

Boo
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: Tickettyboo on Thursday 05 June 25 16:48 BST (UK)
If that Probate Calendar is the correct one then John was cremated at Anfield on 16th April 1960
You said you have access to Ancestry so here is the link which gives brief detail about the coroner's findings (very sad)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/9041/records/4519446?tid=&pid=&queryId=a750f13a-7df9-4fa9-85ee-efcaadd2982b&_phsrc=Zic9&_phstart=successSource

Boo
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Thursday 05 June 25 17:10 BST (UK)
Thanks Boo - interesting indeed.  I have no access to Ancestry now; that was long long ago.  If it disturbing could you send me details privately. If you are not able to do this, do not worry, my daughter will purchase Ancestry so we can complete our understanding of the sadness that descended on the family all those years ago.
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 05 June 25 17:41 BST (UK)
Your local library may have access to the free Ancestry Library Edition.
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: Tickettyboo on Thursday 05 June 25 18:50 BST (UK)
Thanks Boo - interesting indeed.  I have no access to Ancestry now; that was long long ago.  If it disturbing could you send me details privately. If you are not able to do this, do not worry, my daughter will purchase Ancestry so we can complete our understanding of the sadness that descended on the family all those years ago.

I've sent you a Private Message but the details shown are unlikely to be any different to what's on the death certificate - but did help me  to verify it was the right John Wilson .
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Friday 06 June 25 17:00 BST (UK)
Dear Frian - further to my last note I have been looking back to see where our trees could have met. Does the name Joseph Dawson appear on your tree?
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: frian on Saturday 07 June 25 17:46 BST (UK)
Dear Recorder,  I'm sorry to say I have misled you - and myself too.  I had thought the Thomas Wilson who was married at St. Cyprian's Edge Hill was the Thomas Wilson, born Liverpool 1854, one of the sons of Richard Wilson (who in turn was born Ravenglass, West Cumberland).  But I managed to find your Thomas's marriage certificate on familysearch, and I now know that Richard Wilson was not his father.   
I haven't got a Joseph Dawson either...... Sorry about that.  It would have been good to find a family connection.
Ian
Title: Re: Sidney and Ethel Wilson Liverpool 1938
Post by: recorder on Sunday 08 June 25 10:25 BST (UK)
Frian - thanks for your note.  I share your disappointment; as you say it would have been nice to find a common ancestor.  However, I had not built up my hopes too high as I recollected that we had had a  private exchange of notes just before Christmas in 2018. You may remember I had been trying to find the grave of Mary Ann Barrow (formerly Mary Ann Wilson) in Milnthorpe (I think) and you were seeking to find a reference in one of the books you had.

Nonetheless it is good to exchange another note with you.

Peter.