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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: 3girls on Wednesday 07 May 25 23:45 BST (UK)
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Hi, Can anyone assist me with an address located in Penarth?
I have information on a census as 47 Maughan Terrace, Penarth. When I look on google maps, it doesn't actually pin to a property, just the street.
Can someone give me some insight of this address?
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Here's Maughan Terrace on a 1956 OS map, with house numbers; but they only go up to 17, are you sure about the 47?
https://maps.nls.uk/view/144771727#zoom=4.8&lat=5154&lon=4246&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/144771727#zoom=4.8&lat=5154&lon=4246&layers=BT)
I searched in newspapers for the highest number shown on the map, 17, which I can imagine being misread as 47 in some handwriting, and there are hits starting in 1885. When was the census?
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Just noticed the title of your post, so probably the 1901 census.
I did an address search at FindMyPast:Looking at 1901, the numbers go from 1-16 and then 46! Looking at the actual return, this seems to be a misinterpreted annotation, not a house number.
If the family that you are interested in is William and Catherine Jones, then my interpretation is that they are at no. 7.
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Here's Maughan Terrace on a 1956 OS map, with house numbers; but they only go up to 17, are you sure about the 47?
https://maps.nls.uk/view/144771727#zoom=4.8&lat=5154&lon=4246&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/144771727#zoom=4.8&lat=5154&lon=4246&layers=BT)
I searched in newspapers for the highest number shown on the map, 17, which I can imagine being misread as 47 in some handwriting, and there are hits starting in 1885. When was the census?
The information I have is
Doris Catherine Mitchell
DOB 2/2/1906
from memory the census listed her as age 5, not sure exactly what month the census was done?
Just noticed on the map there is a Maughan Lane, could that be it?
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There was also a Maughan Street, now Queen’s Road. Move the slider to reveal the modern map:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.1&lat=51.44312&lon=-3.17455&layers=6&b=osm&o=100 (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.1&lat=51.44312&lon=-3.17455&layers=6&b=osm&o=100)
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There was also a Maughan Street, now Queen’s Road. Move the slider to reveal the modern map:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.1&lat=51.44312&lon=-3.17455&layers=6&b=osm&o=100 (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.1&lat=51.44312&lon=-3.17455&layers=6&b=osm&o=100)
Oh wow, that is very interesting!
I'm visiting from Australia at the end of the month, so I would like to get a photo of where Doris lived in the early 1900's (if possible/house still there)?
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On the 1911 census, the householders schedules go up to no 18 Maughan terrace. Can't find a 5 year old Doris at any of the houses in this street.
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On the 1911 census, the householders schedules go up to no 18 Maughan terrace. Can't find a 5 year old Doris at any of the houses in this street.
Just reading back through some notes I got and it looks like it was Maughan Street, which is now Queens Road as per above, which probably makes more sense!? ???
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By 1911 census Doris is with her widowed mother Annie and 2 siblings living at 3 Garth Court Cardiff
The 1901 census has mother Annie and eldest son Joseph (Allan) living with her parents at 27, Dogfield Street, Roath.
SS
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Your information may be incorrect. Doris Catherine Mitchell's mother's maiden name was Myers. Other births registered in Cardiff with that MMN were:
Joseph Wilfred Allen Mitchell (1900)
Dorothy Phyllis Mitchell (1907)
This family (including Doris, aged 5, and mother Annie, 41, a widow) were living at 3 Garth Court, Cardiff in the 1911 census.
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By 1911 census Doris is with her widowed mother Annie and 2 siblings living at 3 Garth Court Cardiff
The 1901 census has mother Annie and eldest son Joseph (Allan) living with her parents at 27, Dogfield Street, Roath.
SS
These were the only ones I could find as well. No Doris living in a Maughan terrace / Road.
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Your information may be incorrect. Doris Catherine Mitchell's mother's maiden name was Myers. Other births registered in Cardiff with that MMN were:
Joseph Wilfred Allen Mitchell (1900)
Dorothy Phyllis Mitchell (1907)
This family (including Doris, aged 5, and mother Annie, 41, a widow) were living at 3 Garth Court, Cardiff in the 1911 census.
I have Doris Catherine Mitchell DOB 2/2/1906 Married Frederick Samuel Roue B. 17/5/1905 at St Pancras London 1st quarter 1936
Father was Joseph Mitchell B. 1881 D.1933
Mother was Elizabeth Ann Price B. 1872 D.1952
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Is the mother listed on an E/W marriage record? - that would be highly unusual.
I believe the mother to be Annie Beatrice h Myers. Look for marriages on FreeBMD Mitchell / Myers cardiff district
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Is the mother listed on an E/W marriage record? - that would be highly unusual.
I believe the mother to be Annie Beatrice h Myers. Look for marriages on FreeBMD Mitchell / Myers cardiff district
Sorry, what does E/W mean?
link to marriage info?
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Father was Joseph Mitchell B. 1881 D.1933
Mother was Elizabeth Ann Price B. 1872 D.1952
Elizabeth Ann Price is the other possible bride on the same marriage record.
On the index there will be two grooms and two brides, you have to see the actual marriage record to be sure which pairing is correct.
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Sorry for the shorthand
E/W means England and Wales. Scottish records are different and give more information.
The marriage was at St Pancras, London,
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Doris must have been previously married.
Marriages Mar 1936
Mitchell Doris C Roue Pancras 1b 148
Phillips Doris C Roue Pancras 1b 148
Roue Frederick S Phillips Pancras 1b 148
Roue Frederick S Mitchell Pancras 1b 148
Husband with son in 1939 at 64 Elm Park Avenue, Elm Park, Hornchurch U.D., Essex, England
SS
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1897 marriage announcement
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/c7164b89-67f8-4bb4-b65f-44daa552f447
This clarifies the relationship between Annie and Henry James Mawditt her stepfather ( she is listed in the 1901 census as his daughter).
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Doris must have been previously married.
Marriages Mar 1936
Mitchell Doris C Roue Pancras 1b 148
Phillips Doris C Roue Pancras 1b 148
Roue Frederick S Phillips Pancras 1b 148
Roue Frederick S Mitchell Pancras 1b 148
Husband with son in 1939 at 64 Elm Park Avenue, Elm Park, Hornchurch U.D., Essex, England
SS
Yes previously married and I was told (Through this website) that they more than likely got married in a registary office in London??
Address details are correct and the son listed is my father in-law :)
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1897 marriage announcement
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/c7164b89-67f8-4bb4-b65f-44daa552f447
This clarifies the relationship between Annie and Henry James Mawditt her stepfather ( she is listed in the 1901 census as his daughter).
Another announcement says Joseph was third son of the late Mr J M Mitchell, builder, and Mr Mawditt was a baker
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Death of Doris.
ROUE DORIS CATHERINE 53220/1972 Parents JOSEPH & ANNIE PARRAMATTA NSW.
SS
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Slightly side information
Bankruptcy of HJ Mawditt: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3884167/3884169/39/mawditt
Death of HJ Mawditt: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3380574/3380577/91/mawditt
Harriett & HJ Mawditt the victims of crooked coal dealer: https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3273671/3273674/52/Frederick%2BOR%2BJames%2BOR%2BAustin (he later pleaded guilty to forgery)
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By 1911 census Doris is with her widowed mother Annie and 2 siblings living at 3 Garth Court Cardiff
The 1901 census has mother Annie and eldest son Joseph (Allan) living with her parents at 27, Dogfield Street, Roath.
SS
I can't find Garth COURT on google maps today? was there a name change in history?
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Garth Court does not show on this 1901 map, however from it's location on the the 1911 census I assume it comes off Garth St. Possibly the Court just to the east of Garth St.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17.8&lat=51.47844&lon=-3.16939&layers=6&right=ESRIWorld
nls doesn't seem to have a 25 inch OS of this area.
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maddys52, your surmise was correct.
This is the 1877/1900 Town Plan showing Garth Court entered from Garth Street (the “X” on top of a building indicates a covered entry of some sort).
https://maps.nls.uk/view/229407435#zoom=4.9&lat=9594&lon=3443&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/229407435#zoom=4.9&lat=9594&lon=3443&layers=BT)
As shown on the map view linked by maddys52, it is now a car park.
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Some photos of the area before demolition and redevelopment here:
https://www.ilovesthediff.com/adamstreet.html (https://www.ilovesthediff.com/adamstreet.html)
The Vulcan Inn is shown on maps on Adam Street just W of the turn into Garth Street.
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Some evidence relating to Garth Court around the time that Doris Mitchell was living there.
There was a lot of turnover in Garth Court. Looking at the 1901, 1911 and 1921 censuses there is no overlap between the families in the three returns, and none of those named in the newspaper items shown below are there either.
The properties in Garth Court are listed in a Clearance Order (demolition) in 1934. Nos. 1-5 are described as "Dwellinghouse, W.C., and Common Court"; No.6 as an outbuilding [possibly a common washhouse?] Annie Mitchell’s return in 1911 states that there are two rooms.
10 May 1904: South Wales Daily News
A "BEER WARRANT" VISIT.
Thomas Kiely, labourer, 24 years of age, was charged (before Alderman David Jones and other magistrates) at Cardiff on Monday with assaulting P. C. Edgar Dix (43A) at Garth-court on Sunday. P. C. Dix said he, in company with another officer, visited a house in Garth-court on Sunday evening, and instituted a search of the premises on a "beer warrant." He saw several bottles of beer on a table, and went to secure them. There-upon the prisoner caught hold of him by the collar, struck him in the side, and pushed him against the door, saying, " You don't take any of that -- beer. Prisoner now appealed for one chance more, for the sake of his wife and two little children. He faithfully promised to give no more trouble to their Worships. — The Chairman: We have considered your appeal on behalf of your wife and children, and you can go away now. See you try to behave yourself in future.—Kiely (saluting) : I will, sir. Thank you kindly.
11 May 1910: Western Mail
INSPECTOR'S ALLEGATIONS AGAINST CARDIFF PARENT.
When Stanley Parker, aged seven, of 4, Garth-court, was changed by Police-constable Giles at Cardiff Police-court on Tuesday with begging in Saunders road, Court-officer Beetle said he had served numerous summonses at the house, and had taken two boys of the family to an industrial school. There was a long family, and the children ran about like colts. Inspector Bingham said the boy had twice been charged with stealing letters from a letter-box. The Chairman (Mr. P. J. Veall): What, this little boy! Inspector Bingham: Yes, sir. The father has had 17 summonses recently for not sending his children to school. He gets them sent to an industrial school, and though orders are made, be does not pay a penny, so that the state has to maintain them. One of his children was caught begging, and the father was seen to meet him in the street. The boy was cautioned, but the father, William James Parker, was dealt with under the new Act, and fined 10s. and costs, or fourteen days.
26 January 1915: Western Mail
WATCHED BY THE POLICE.
Mary Evans (29) was charged at Cardiff on Monday (before Mr. W. T. Symonds, Mr. H. M. Thompson, and Mr. J. Chellew) with assisting in the management of a disorderly house in Garth-court. Police-constable Sparkes detailed the results of observations kept upon the premises by himself and Police-constable Chapple, and Court-inspector J. E. Price intimated that he had been asked by the head-constable to mention that he had received several complaints of robberies having taken place at the house. The Bench imposed a fine of £5 and costs, or a month.
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Looking into Joseph Mitchell's origins.
As previously mentioned, the marriage announcement in The Cornishman records that he was the third son of J M Mitchell, builder, of St Austell.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-share/53191cee-e276-49cb-a08b-df384b8db207
It's very likely that he was the Joseph Mitchell born in 1865 in St Austell, the third son of builder James Melhuish Mitchell and his wife Catherine Merrifield.
Public tree on Ancestry for that family: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/facts?_phcmd=u(%27https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/
Possible death in Cardiff in 1910: Joseph Mitchell aged 45.