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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: ladyk on Wednesday 07 May 25 05:12 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: ladyk on Wednesday 07 May 25 05:12 BST (UK)
Hi all - recently discovered that my gr-gr-grandmother was imprisoned twice in Paisley prison in 1873. I have the admission records, but I am hoping to find more specifics about the crimes, arrests, perhaps court records or witness statements. I have NRS reference numbers, and wondering if anyone here has access to the database.
The prisoner's name is Caroline Reid
first imprisonment was 5 Sept 1873, second one a few days later, I think. The NRS reference records are as follows:
HH21/39/5 p.244  and...
HH21/39/5 p.247

Anyone know how I can get ahold of these two records?
Thanks,
Kat
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 07 May 25 07:18 BST (UK)
Have you tried wwwscottishindexes.com/prisontranscrip

There is a charge of £5.00 research fee for full entry

You could also try looking at newspaper's to see if there is a mention of her

Rosie
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: AlanBoyd on Wednesday 07 May 25 08:42 BST (UK)
Not a prison record but I wonder if this is she?

Notice that in the case of James Strain, at the bottom, he was given the option of prison instead of paying the fine: perhaps this is what ended up happening in her case.

9 August 1873: Paisley Herald and Renfrewshire Advertiser
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: rosie17 on Wednesday 07 May 25 10:25 BST (UK)
Certainly looks like her AlanBoyd
Index record gives her occupation as outworker

Rosie
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: ladyk on Wednesday 07 May 25 21:01 BST (UK)
Have you tried wwwscottishindexes.com/prisontranscrip

There is a charge of £5.00 research fee for full entry

You could also try looking at newspaper's to see if there is a mention of her

Rosie
Hi Rosie, I did obtain the prison admittance records with dates and offenses charged. I am hoping to find court records or other that will give  me the details of the two offenses.
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: ladyk on Wednesday 07 May 25 21:05 BST (UK)
Not a prison record but I wonder if this is she?

Notice that in the case of James Strain, at the bottom, he was given the option of prison instead of paying the fine: perhaps this is what ended up happening in her case.

9 August 1873: Paisley Herald and Renfrewshire Advertiser
Alan, you're a genius! THAT'S HER! Any chance her other arrest would be in the papers? The other arrest was on 5 September 1873 for "malicious mischief and breach of the peace" Thank you so much for your help!
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: ladyk on Wednesday 07 May 25 21:07 BST (UK)
Certainly looks like her AlanBoyd
Index record gives her occupation as outworker

Rosie
What was an outworker?
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 08 May 25 06:56 BST (UK)
Certainly looks like her AlanBoyd
Index record gives her occupation as outworker

Rosie
What was an outworker?

Someone working in field work

Rosie
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 08 May 25 07:04 BST (UK)
Or…I thought it was one of those workers who did piece work at home for a factory of some sort.

Presume you have census records for her. What does it say on them?
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: rosie17 on Thursday 08 May 25 07:20 BST (UK)
Or…I thought it was one of those workers who did piece work at home for a factory of some sort.

Presume you have census records for her. What does it say on them?

That as well reading the newspaper report it said she hit someone with a rake so would think more related to being out in a field .I might be wrong  ;)

Rosie
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: mckha489 on Thursday 08 May 25 07:24 BST (UK)

That as well reading the newspaper report it said she hit someone with a rake so would think more related to being out in a field .I might be wrong  ;)

Rosie
Oh yes….the rake… forgot about that  ;D
Need to review the census
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: ladyk on Friday 09 May 25 02:46 BST (UK)
Census records for Caroline Reid reflect the various menial jobs she had, starting at age 13 working as "bleacher" in a thread mill. Later she was listed as "factory worker", and her death record says she was working as a "laundress". I don't have an indication anywhere that she worked outside, but it's very odd ..... I have written a novel about Caroline Reid. Of course I had to fill in the parts of her story that I didn't have records for. In the novel, there is one part that I have her working outside doing landscaping work, like planting shrubs and such. Maybe I was channeling her while writing about her! The other strange thing is this: When I was 3 yrs old, one of my earliest memories, the kid next door hit me in the forehead with a WOODEN RAKE! (said he wanted to see me bleed. this kid is probably in some max security prison now) Maybe I'm being dramatic ... ok, I am being dramatic, but those 2 coincidences have meaning for me. Make of it what you will!
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: Neale1961 on Friday 09 May 25 02:53 BST (UK)
Outworker doesn't mean she worked outside.

In the textile industry, weavers working from home were called outworkers. They were paid for piece-work for the goods they produced.
The term outworker can refer to any home based worker, not working within a business premises.

An Outdoor Worker was someone working the land.
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: ladyk on Friday 09 May 25 05:03 BST (UK)
Ok, she was referred to as outworker and in a different record as out-door worker! Someone maybe made a clerical error. But, since the assault was with a wooden rake, could well have been some sort of outdoor work...
Title: Re: Looking for detailed prison records in 1873 Paisley
Post by: carolineasb on Sunday 18 May 25 23:03 BST (UK)
Very spooky to see a post on here about someone living about c150 years ago with your own name!

My Paternal Grandmother's family also lived in Neilston where there was a huge mill (the building is actually still there but just not a mill anymore). She married into my Reid family originally from Ireland.