RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: haney on Wednesday 07 May 25 00:33 BST (UK)
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Good Morning everyone
Can anyone tell me if there is an expert/experts available to analyse my DNA results. I have a "real" problem trying to find my mothers (actual) Grandfather.
On mums Birth Cert it has WALTER AUGUSTUS SANDERS as her Dad. I am tracking his movements now and also trying to fit in where my Grandmother (and her mum) were living in Redfern.
Just to see if I can find Walter and my Nan AMY STARR actually living together, or NEAR each other anyway.
They were not married even though it say's they were on Mum's Birth Cert.
There are a few notices for Walter A SANDERS not paying maintenance.
I would love to know if my Grandmother Amy May STARR was the one who went to the childrens court to make this claim.
Hope I can find some documentation. Kindest regards Dianna
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HI Again
I should have said my GRANDFATHER, not mums. Her father (according to her BC) was Walter AUGUSTUS SANDERS.
There is a WW1 record for him as well as Government employment records in 1920.
My Mum was born 25th April 1920, address was given as 26 Eveleigh St. REDFERN at that time.
Many thanks Dianna
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Hi Dianna,
I'm sure those with good understanding of DNA findings and meanings will reach out to help.
Meantime, I hope you will not mind that I mention this.....
When you use terms like mum, dad, and nan, it can be difficult for helpers to exactly follow your line even though you know who you mean.
Using the terms grandmother, great grandmother, father and mother may make things easier to follow.
These thoughts sent with kindly intentions. ;)
Sue
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Hi Sue thanks for that. I see what you mean by my terms. May not come across clearly. I will do as you suggest and try and make it clearer next time.
Must be my poor brain in disarray trying to understand DNA matches when none of it is obvious to me. LOL
I know you only have kind intentions. Many thanks Dianna
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I agree with Sue about the terms used. I would go a bit further and suggest that you maybe initially mention the relationship and after that use their full names. For example I was initially confused about who was the father and who was the grandfather. So if you say “my grandfather Walter Sanders and my nan Amy Starr” then after that you could go on and say “Walter and Amy were not married” etc etc. :)
Just to confirm, are you trying to find DNA matches to Walter? You are also looking for documentation to prove relationships?
Did your mother have any siblings? If so, was Walter named as their father as well? I am wondering if your Mum was illegitimate, maybe from a casual relationship, or maybe Walter and Amy married elsewhere and you just haven’t found the marriage certificate yet. If you can’t find them together maybe the relationship was casual, though that does not necessarily prove that was the case.
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Regarding your DNA … did you test with Ancestry, and if so, have you looked at your matches in your mother’s side, as they will be your maternal matches and anyone else who matches with Walter should be there. Maybe use a process of elimination to narrow them down …
Do you have any matches that you are certain are related to Amy? If so, you should be able to look at other matches that you and Amy have in common. Any of the remaining matches who do not match Amy and yourself, should be from Walter’s side of the family.
I would look at the highest matches to see if any have trees, then look for any places and approximate dates which might tally. Don’t worry too much if the surname is not Sanders as matches can easily come down the female line and they usually change their surname upon marriage. You should contact possible Walter matches in case they know something about him.
Of course it is possible that the family lines died out so there are no descendants to take a DNA test, maybe no one from that family has tested, or maybe they are more distantly related and you don’t share much DNA so are not showing up.
I’m not sure how clear that is. I’m sure you will get help from others who know more about it than I do. I just wanted to give you an idea of some starting points.
Good luck
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HI Ruskie
Thanks for that!
Yes I did test with ancestry! I cannot find any matches to a SANDERS or RUSSELL. Russells are the Grandchildren of Walter A SANDERS.
I found one close match. I contacted her and no reply as yes. She could be the key.
Slowly I am contacting all the matches to my Mother Daphne May Charles (nee Sanders) and MANY of the surnames are WONSON.
I do not have ANY WONSONS in my tree and that is where I am hoping to connect up with someone.
I have many matches to my Grandmother AMY MAY GERTRUDE STARR via the Starrs, Carberry's, Byrnes and all of the other extended branches of the various trees.
1st cousin 1x removed or half 1st cousin
Maternal side
499 cM | 7% shared DNA
The above is the closest Maternal match I have. I have contacted her. No reply and you cannot see any names in her tree. There are only 6 people though.
I did check shared DNA matches to this person and there are quite a few.
Most seem to have the WONSON surname mentioned in their respective trees.
So that is my starting point I guess. So it does not look very promising for the SANDERS surname to be attached to me.
It may remain a mystery but there is some reason behind all of this and I have a suspicion that my Grandmother AMY may not have known who the father of my mother was.
Amy did have another child name WILLIAM JOSEPH STARR born in Newtown in 1917, illegitimate.
What a headache honestly. I guess if it is meant to be it will. Something will eventuate. For the meantime I will keep collecting data on the WONSON'S and wait for the lady who is my closest relative to reply. IF AT ALL.
Thanks for your input and time. Regards Dianna
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Diana, when you mention relatives, i.e how they are related to you, it would help if you put the actual name in brackets. Also try and avoid using pronouns without making it very very clear to whom they refer.
Mrs Zaph
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It sounds like you are doing the right thing DNA wise Dianna. It is so frustrating when people don’t reply, and have no trees. All you can do is try again.
Have you uploaded your raw data to My Heritage? A lot of people poo-poo My Heritage but not everyone tests with Ancestry. You need to pay for the extra features but it is probably worth it.
Have you tried tracing as many Wonsons as you can? Maybe make up mini trees for the closest matches?
Don’t be too concerned about not finding any Sanders. Concentrate on the close matches on that branch of the family. Maybe Walter was not the father or there could be a number of other scenarios for why no Sanders show up in your results.
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Have you tried tracing as many Wonsons as you can? Maybe make up mini trees for the closest matches?
If you want to give some surnames listed as close matches, some here might be able to make links to such names with any WONSONs in the area at the time. As that surname seems to dominate your connections.
Not exactly scientific, but may help you to settle on a focus among the many matches you have. ;D
Sue
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Hi Sue thank you for the suggestion, maybe a good idea. I will post here maybe later. LOL My head is spinning trying to work this out.
In the mean time I am contacting as many of the SMITH clan as I can to eliminate Arthur SMITH as my Grandfather.
I've made contact with one of the SMITHS over the last couple of day's who is sharing with me his shared matches.
At the moment it does not look like I am a SMITH descendant.
So I have to keep going between the two names.
Then look at the names in my CLOSE connections and nothing is adding up.
So must be another "illegitmate" child to my Grandmother Amy. Driving me crazy. LOL
Thanks for your time. Kindest regards Dianna
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Hi I will start with this. I have two choices for a Grandfather.
1) ARTHUR SMITH (family rumour suggests this + photo of him seems to resemble my mother DAPHNE MAY b 1920-1986.
2) WALTER AUGUSTUS SANDERS (the man on my mothers birth certificate).
I will attach here the first 4 people on my closest matches on maternal side. Regards Dianna
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Deidre BEGGS is the mother of Elesha Nounnis. Elesha gave me a rough tree the other day. I had contacte Deidre BEGGS and asked her if she had any SMITHS in her tree. NO was the reply.
Reply from Elesha Nounnis.
Hi Dianna my mother is Deidre Beggs who was Deidre Marshall her father was Kevin Marshall his mother was Linda Wonson who became Linda Marshall hope this helps
That gives me half of the tree I guess.
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This is what comes up the most common surnames. None of it looks familiar to me!!
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You have some very close DNA matches there Dianna.
Do each of those matches match with each other as well as you on the same line?
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I think so!! I would have to double check by doing the "shared matches". Thanks Dianna
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I have no ability with DNA workings, but I would point out, in case you had not already explored it, that Linda MM WONSON had a brother John Edward about the same age as Amy.
He has a digitised War Service History FYI
Sue
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HMMMMM!!! That is interesting Sue! I will check John Edward out. Long process isn't it!! Thanks Dianna
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Would it make any difference if a close relly for example that Toni Evans Evans was NOT born in NSW or Australia??
When I put that in born NSW AUSTRALIA she then does not appear!! I cannot see anywhere her place of birth or even where she comes from/living!!! Regards Dianna
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Hi
Just trying to link the WONSON's on your matches together because they are close and frequent you say. Wonder if I've got tis right ;)
Joseph and Elizabeth WONSON had two sons
Joseph Wm m. Rebecca 1899
Son John Edward (mentioned above brother of Linda)
And
James m Mary Ann
Son Sydney O. b 1882 ?m?. Nellie May
Son A***n who likely had a son of the same given name (EDIT for clarity)
Possibly worth a follow up as it gives a shared genetic line between Linda and A***n.
I have left it to you to put in the dates and reg number
Sue
EDIT.
Many of the names on your posts belong to living people.
I would advise caution on this.
Rootschat policies disallow discussion of living people
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Hi Sue I will re look at this tomorrow with a fresh head. LOL Mean while I am now trying to delete any mention of living people.
Thank you. Dianna
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For your interest and to tick off a few more names on you most frequent surname list posted Reply #12.
ELLIOTT was the maiden surname of Elizabeth, the mother of Joseph William,
Joseph William with his wife Rebecca, (nee EAGLES), had the son John Edward John WONSON.
(Also Rebecca, using surname WONSON lists another son Claude 1897 (father not listed Died 1897)
Here is the marriage of WONSON/ ELLIOTT
666/1861
WONSON Joseph
ELLIOTT Eliza
SYDNEY
I cannot locate a marriage between James WONSON and Mary Ann
--James WONSON also being the other son mentioned above of Joseph WONSON and Elizabeth (nee ELLIOTT)- --
However, at her death in 1913 her parents are Thomas and Ann
Death
WONSON MARY A
1739/1913
F. Thomas
M. Ann
GLEBE
This might be her birth and the surname is ALLEN.
ALLEN MARY A
336/1858
F. Thomas
M. Anne
SYDNEY
This is a series of Funeral Notices published upon the death of Mary Ann WONSON (presumably nee ALLEN) 1913
Each relative publishes separately. James and wife mentioned and also Mr and Mrs EVANS
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15391840?searchTerm=%22wonson%20mary%20ann%22~3
Here is a marriage WONSON/ EVANS, She was one of the daughters of James and Mary Ann (nee ALLEN) WONSON
5373/1911
EVANS PercyJ B
WONSON Caroline P
GLEBE
Sue
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Thank you Sue.
This is intriguing. The name EVANS made me look as this is a name I'm very interested in searching. Because of the name of my closest match and because of a strange thing I found that may (or maynot) connect her.
It may have just been a very strange coincidence. May mean nothing! As I said if my closest match does not message me I will never know.
Thanks so much for your time. Maybe it will be resolved one day.
There are a couple of EVANS that live in Eveleigh St. Redfern in the 1920's and that is where ANNIE/AGNES ANN STARR was living.
I will look into that marriage of PERCY J B EVANS.
Who knows right!! Many thanks Dianna
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There are a couple of EVANS that live in Eveleigh St. Redfern in the 1920's and that is where ANNIE/AGNES ANN STARR was living.
I had not seen that.
Who were they?
Where did you locate them?
Sue
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Looking on the city of Sydney Archives. Must have been the Sands directory
https://archives.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/nodes/view/1899602
Page 19 Mrs Annie Starr
Page 24 No 139 John Evans
116 Charles O Evans
Maybe just a coincidence perhaps.
I'm looking at this tree as well
https://www.ancestry.com.au/family-tree/person/tree/101132593/person/110016347270/facts
James Thomas WONSON
1872–1920
BIRTH 31 JAN 1872 • Wilton, New South Wales, Australia
DEATH 21 DEC 1920 • Redfern, New South Wales
May mean nothing but we are getting closer. LOL Dianna