RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Matt7924 on Saturday 03 May 25 15:47 BST (UK)
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I have been looking on and off for a Frank Lewis whose son Cyril Dyson Lewis married my grandad's cousin Doris Wyres. Their marriage certificate from 1945 shows Cyril's father as Frank Lewis, occupation drapery salesman and it doesn't show Frank as deceased. However, the 1939 census shows Cyril and his mother Lily living in Wolverhampton and Lily's marital status is shown as widowed. When I looked for Cyril's birth entry from 1916 it gave his mother's maiden name as Lewis. Assuming her last name before marriage could have been the same as her husband's, I've looked for a Lily Lewis who married a Frank Lewis in the Black Country region and I've found nothing. Cyril's birth was registered in Dudley (it seems possible he was born in Sedgley or Coseley as they came under Dudley registration district and Doris came from this area). By a coincidence his second wife also came from Coseley (Doris died at a fairly young age)
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It's possible Cyril was illegitimate and made up a fathers name when he got married which wasn't unheard of.
There may not be a Frank Lewis but if you obtain the birth certificate for Cyril it will have his parent(s) on it.
In these cases middle names can often be a clue to the father so Dyson in this case.
Also fathers weren't always noted as deceased even if they were as just their names were asked for.
To summarise the first step would be to get the birth for Cyril and see if a father is named :)
Note no mothers maiden name is listed for his birth on the General Register Office birth index.
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If his mother was Lily Louisa Lewis born 1888 then she died under the name Lewis and I think was a single lady.
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It's very interesting to think Cyril made up his father's name for the marriage if he was illegitimate, I've never heard of this before. I often wonder where the name Dyson came from, I can get his birth certificate to find out.
I also never knew fathers always weren't shown as deceased as other marriage certificates I've got show fathers as deceased and I just remembered Doris's father (my great grandad's brother in law) was shown as deceased on their certificate.
Lily was the Lily Louisa Lewis you mentioned, she would have been single at the time she died, but if she had been married then her husband (if he existed) would have died before 1939
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It was quite common for illegitimate people to invent a father for the marriage cert when marrying so as to save face.
I think in the early decades of civil reg 1837 to around 1870s/1880s, whether the father was deceased or not was rarely mentioned.
A cousin found our ancestor's father mentioned on an 1845 marriage cert for our ancestor's brother and listed him as still being alive in 1845. He actually died in 1831 aged just 41.
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Dyson could be the fathers name but if so will be difficult to find which Mr Dyson it may have been.
For Lily to say she was a widow wasn’t unheard of either, more respectable than saying you were unmarried if living alone with a child.
Do let us know what the birth says and if we can help further.
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Don’t forget you can get the cheaper £3 image for that birth which you can then download immediately.
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Lily Louisa is showing as a single woman in 1921 - working in service in Teddington, Middlesex
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It's possible Cyril was illegitimate and made up a fathers name when he got married which wasn't unheard of.
There may not be a Frank Lewis but if you obtain the birth certificate for Cyril it will have his parent(s) on it.
In these cases middle names can often be a clue to the father so Dyson in this case.
Also fathers weren't always noted as deceased even if they were as just their names were asked for.
To summarise the first step would be to get the birth for Cyril and see if a father is named :)
Note no mothers maiden name is listed for his birth on the General Register Office birth index.
I didn't see about how no mother's maiden name is listed before, I was sure when I saw his entry his mother's maiden name was shown as Lewis, which made me wonder if he was illegitimate
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Dyson could be the fathers name but if so will be difficult to find which Mr Dyson it may have been.
For Lily to say she was a widow wasn’t unheard of either, more respectable than saying you were unmarried if living alone with a child.
Do let us know what the birth says and if we can help further.
I think I'd heard this before, that an unmarried woman with a child said they were a widow because of how it was more respectable
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Lily Louisa is showing as a single woman in 1921 - working in service in Teddington, Middlesex
I saw this record recently and how Cyril wasn't mentioned, I wonder where he was in 1921, perhaps living with relatives? It looks even more like Frank Lewis was just invented by him for the marriage certificate
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I am going to order the certificate, was the £3.00 order mentioned for viewing the birth index record?
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You get to download the image of the birth certificate information for £3.00 which is then available immediately to view on your screen.
Via the GRO website.
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I wonder where he was in 1921, perhaps living with relatives?
Good question yes where was he. Possibly with grandparents?
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I wonder where he was in 1921, perhaps living with relatives?
Good question yes where was he. Possibly with grandparents?
Were Lily's parents Thomas and Hannah :-\
Hannah was a widow in 1901 age 43 bn Dudley living Wolverhampton
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I wonder where he was in 1921, perhaps living with relatives?
Good question yes where was he. Possibly with grandparents?
Were Lily's parents Thomas and Hannah :-\
Hannah was a widow in 1901 age 43 bn Dudley living Wolverhampton
Lily's parents were Thomas and Hannah, sorry about the late reply. I wonder why they moved to Wolverhampton? Cyril and Lily were living on the western outskirts of Wolverhampton in 1939 in what was then a fairly new house
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I've ordered Cyril's birth certificate now, it will be very interesting to see what it says about his father. It was mentioned on here about how Cyril's middle name Dyson might have had connections with his father. Although the Frank Lewis mentioned on the marriage certificate might not have existed, I remember seeing on the 1939 census a few years ago there was a Frank H. Lewis living just down the road from Lily and Cyril. This Frank had a surname as his middle name, it was Henshaw, but I don't think there's any connection
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Cyril Lewis's birth certificate came today and it mentions he was born at Prince Street, Netherton, Dudley. As I suspected, it shows his father's section to be blank. It also mentions his mother Lily's occupation was domestic servant. As there's no details on his father, it makes me wonder where Cyril's middle name Dyson came from, unless it was Lily's mother's maiden name.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, when Lily and Cyril were living in Wolverhampton in 1939, there was a Frank Lewis who lived down the road who appears to have been unrelated as I traced his family and found they originated from Willenhall (for members who don't know the Black Country Willenhall is between Wolverhampton and Walsall) and they were lock makers like so many people in Willenhall.
I wonder if Cyril might have known Frank and that could possibly have been why he used the name Frank for his imaginary father on the marriage certificate. I was also thinking as Lily was a domestic servant, could the father have been her employer as I know this did happen
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Was the birth registered by his mother?
The birth registration for Lily on the GRO website will show her mother’s maiden name but I do suspect Dyson is a nod to the father.
Mothers maiden name was Jackson
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The birth was registered by his mother. Thanks for letting me know her mother's maiden name was Jackson. I will look for people with the name Dyson on the 1911 census and see if I can find anything