RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Eyesee on Friday 02 May 25 02:21 BST (UK)
-
Arthur Christian CRIPPS married Alison Lillias Jessie PEARETH in 1933 in Paddington.
According to FreeBMD there was a male CRIPPS birth registered at Hove in Sep qtr 1935 with the mmn of PEARETH. Do not think he is still alive but will not post his name just in case.
Arthur and Alison are in Exmouth in 1939 register, with his sister Violet, but no sign of said child, either with them or anywhere else.
Can't order birth cert on GRO as 1935 not on there yet.
No sign of a death for said child on GRO from 1935-1939.
There are no other CRIPPS/PEARETH marriages.
Arthur CRIPPS died at Eton, Bucks., in 1949 and Alison in Bideford, Devon in 1953.
Can anyone assist please.
Thanks
Ian C
-
How old were the parents when he was born?
Just wonder if he was adopted and changed his name :-\.
-
Arthur was born 1892 so would be 43, and Alison 1896 so about 39.
If someone is adopted, doesn't their original birth registration disappear?
Ian C
-
You should still be able to order by putting the info in to the order section as opposed to search indexes section on the gro
-
Can't order birth cert on GRO as 1935 not on there yet.
Use the reference details from FreeBMD.
-
Did either parent or the sister leave a will for any info or you could check electoral registers just in case he pops up with family later in life.
-
There’s a private tree with Arthur on you could message
-
FreeBMD is showing the 1935 birth with forename and 2 initials.
The available scan is a typewritten page, clearly viewable.
-
Not helping to find the child, but it looks like Arthur and Alison first got engaged in May 1928, then broke it off in August 1929. Announcement in newspapers in Aug 1929
Are there other relatives the child could be with in 1939?
Or he could have died and death not registered the same way as the birth. Three forenames gives a lot of possibilities
-
Alison Lilas Jessie Cripps died 14 June 1951 she left a will, Probate 1953 .
One executor is Arthur's sister Violet Clara Cripps.
Is it possible the will might offer a clue.
-
The probate entry says administration (with will) (limited) so doesn't sound straightforward. Probate took 5 months. Other executor / administrator Rev Ivor Erskine St Clair Ramsay
-
the Rev Ramsay was Dean of King's College Cambridge and died in 1956 from a fall off the tower at the College.
-
Is this Arthur?
Arthur Cripps (aged 50), Miltonroad, Croydon. slipped and fell on the curb at Grange Park-road. Thornton Heath, on Friday. He was taken ...
Published: Friday 23 February 1945
Newspaper: Norwood News
County: London, England
It's strange that his son's birth hasn't made the news, both his family and his wife's family were well known.
-
It's strange that his son's birth hasn't made the news, both his family and his wife's family were well known.
There is an account of the son's christening with full name, and god parents (and proxies).
Friday, Aug. 2, 1935
Publication: The Times
-
"CRIPPS on July 8, 1935, at 67, Brunswick Place, Hove, Sussex, to ALSION LILLIAS JESSIE (nee Peareth), wife of ARTHUR CHRISTIAN CRIPPS, of Bivia House, Goodrich, Herefordshire - a son"
Tuesday, July 9, 1935
Publication: The Times
-
Thank you, Maddy. So they were really important people ;D
-
The death notice for Arthur Christian CRIPPS in 1949 names 2 sons, one of which is the one born 1935.
Tuesday, Dec. 6, 1949
Publication: The Daily Telegraph
There is a engagement announcement for the other son mentioned, in 1966:
"Mr M F J Lutz and Miss J M G Reid
The engagement is announced between M___ F_____ J_____ , younger son of the late Mr. Arthur Christian Cripps and the late Mrs. Cripps, and adopted son of Herr Friedrich Heinrich Lutz, of Salzberg, Austria and J_______ M_______ G______, daughter of Mr. Walter Lewis Reid and the late Mrs. Reid, of Puerto De La Cruz, Teneriffe, Canary Isles."
Friday, May 20, 1966
Publication: The Times
-
The second son birth registration:
Dec qtr 1939 Devon Central (5b/102) mmn PENRETH
"CRIPPS - On Oct, 27, 1939, at Penearwick, Exmouth, to LILLIAS, wife of ARTHUR C CRIPPS - a son."
Monday, Oct. 30, 1939
Publication: The Times
-
No children mentioned in death notice for Lillias:
"CRIPPS - On June 14, 1953, at Bideford, ALISON LILLIAS JESSIE, wife of the late ARTHUR CHRISTIAN CRIPPS, of St Anselm, Burnham, Bucks, and of St. Hilaire, Exmouth."
Thursday, June 18, 1953
Publication: The Times
-
Thanks Maddy.
Can't access the British Library Newspapers at the moment otherwise I may have found those.
If the second child was adopted then it seems likely that the elder one was as well, seeing as neither of them are in the 1939 with their parents.
What was the death date for Arthur in 1949?
Thanks
Ian C
-
The second son changed his surname from Cripps to Lutz by deed poll on 19 April 1966, a month before his engagement announcement. (The London Gazette. Publication date:21 April 1966, Issue:43957, Page:4921)
-
The marriage didn't materialise. She married another man in 1968.
-
What was the death date for Arthur in 1949?
Sorry, I should have included the death notice earlier:
"CRIPPS - On Friday, Dec. 2, at Upton Hospital, Slough, after a long illness bravely borne ARTHUR CHRISTIAN CRIPPS of St. Anselm, Burnham, Bucks, dearly loved husband of Lillias (nee Peareth) and devoted father of J___ and M___. Funeral from E. Sargeant & Son, Church-st., Slough, tomorrow (Tuesday) at 2 p.m. Service at Tylers Green, Bucks Parish Church at 3 p.m. and internment in Churchyard. No mourning, please."
Monday, Dec. 5, 1949
Publication: The Times
The same announcement appeared the next day however noting the funeral would be Wednesday, "not Tuesday as previously announced".
Tuesday, Dec. 6, 1949
Publication: The Times
-
If the second child was adopted then it seems likely that the elder one was as well, seeing as neither of them are in the 1939 with their parents.
Not sure when the younger son was adopted, he is certainly mentioned in his father's death notice in 1949. As he was born 27 October 1939, he is not included in the 1939 register (information was provided on 29 September).
Perhaps the older son was not with his parents on this date as they were about to have the baby?
-
"CRIPPS on July 8, 1935, at 67, Brunswick Place, Hove, Sussex, to ALSION LILLIAS JESSIE (nee Peareth), wife of ARTHUR CHRISTIAN CRIPPS, of Bivia House, Goodrich, Herefordshire - a son"
Tuesday, July 9, 1935
Publication: The Times
There is a death registered in Torbay district of a John Cripps - no middle names or initials - with this dob in Q3 1986
-
Alison's father was John Lennox Peareth, he died at the end of 1932. His maternal grandfather was a Lennox of Lennox castle, which is where Alison and her mother were in 1901. Maybe the child was sent to Scottish relatives in 1939 due to the war starting and a new baby was imminent.
-
Thanks Lizzie.
Arthur the father's oldest sister was in Scotland, died there in 1938, so probably not with her.
Can someone PM me the full name of the eldest from the baptism please. He might have used one of his other names instead of the first one. His mother used her second name not her first.
Thanks
Ian C
-
Thanks Maddy for the PM.
I had found the Gazette entry when the younger one changed his name by Deed Poll.
Ian C
Added
Was going to order an image of the 1986 death but they are only available up until 1957. Would have to be him I think, no other Cripps born on that date that I can find.
-
"CRIPPS on July 8, 1935, at 67, Brunswick Place, Hove, Sussex, to ALSION LILLIAS JESSIE (nee Peareth), wife of ARTHUR CHRISTIAN CRIPPS, of Bivia House, Goodrich, Herefordshire - a son"
Tuesday, July 9, 1935
Publication: The Times
There is a death registered in Torbay district of a John Cripps - no middle names or initials - with this dob in Q3 1986
Torbay Express and South Devon Echo dated 18 July 1986.
CRIPPS - On July 12th, peacefully, in Paignton, John, aged 51 years. Funeral service at Torquay Cemetery Chapel, Barton Road, Torquay, on Wednesday July 23rd, 11.30am. Floral tributes if desired to Maunders Funeral Home, Well Street, Paignton.
I can't see anything in the newspaper death notices from family or friends.
-
Arthur, Lillias and Violet have attended Lady Dowager Catherine Emma Chichester's interment on 29 July 1937.
Published: Thursday 29 July 1937
Newspaper: North Devon Herald
County: Devon, England
Type: Article | Words: 3868 | Page: 4
-
"CRIPPS on July 8, 1935, at 67, Brunswick Place, Hove, Sussex, to ALSION LILLIAS JESSIE (nee Peareth), wife of ARTHUR CHRISTIAN CRIPPS, of Bivia House, Goodrich, Herefordshire - a son"
Tuesday, July 9, 1935
Publication: The Times
Why was Arthur living in Goodrich, Herefordshire? Do you know what was his occupation?
-
The death notice for Arthur Christian CRIPPS in 1949 names 2 sons, one of which is the one born 1935.
Tuesday, Dec. 6, 1949
Publication: The Daily Telegraph
There is a engagement announcement for the other son mentioned, in 1966:
"Mr M F J Lutz and Miss J M G Reid
The engagement is announced between M___ F_____ J_____ , younger son of the late Mr. Arthur Christian Cripps and the late Mrs. Cripps, and adopted son of Herr Friedrich Heinrich Lutz, of Salzberg, Austria and J_______ M_______ G______, daughter of Mr. Walter Lewis Reid and the late Mrs. Reid, of Puerto De La Cruz, Teneriffe, Canary Isles."
Friday, May 20, 1966
Publication: The Times
Have you found anything about Friedrich Heinrich Lutz? (I suppose it's Salzburg)
-
There are many birth announcements at 67 Brunswick Place Hove from around 1915 to 1940 - presumably it was a private hospital.
-
"CRIPPS on July 8, 1935, at 67, Brunswick Place, Hove, Sussex, to ALSION LILLIAS JESSIE (nee Peareth), wife of ARTHUR CHRISTIAN CRIPPS, of Bivia House, Goodrich, Herefordshire - a son"
Tuesday, July 9, 1935
Publication: The Times
Why was Arthur living in Goodrich, Herefordshire? Do you know what was his occupation?
Bivia House Goodrich was at least in the early 1940s lived in by the parents of this man.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Montague_Browne
The 1939 register has Francis? and Violet Browne in Hereford but the address isn't clear.
The Cripps were obviously involved with people in the higher end of society.
-
In 1921 and 1939 Arthur C Cripps wasn't working, living on private means.
-
Thank you jaywit, and maddy. Some interesting comments regarding 67 Brunswick Place and 70 Brunswick Place (Lady Chichester Hospital) and adoption. Maybe Lillias had a nervous breakdown or postnatal depression?
https://www.mybrightonandhove.org.uk/places/placecivic/lady-chichester-hospital/lady-chichester-hospital
1522 THE LONDON GAZETTE, 5 MARCH, 1937
NOTICE is hereby given that the Partnership
heretofore subsisting between us the undersigned
Olive Jessie Offord (nee Hall) and Alice Louise
Brunning carrying on business as Proprietresses of
a Nursing Home at 67 Brunswick Place Hove Sussex
has been dissolved by mutual consent as from the
3ist day of December 1936. All debts due to and
owing by the said late firm will be received and
paid respectively by the undersigned Alice Louise
Brunning who will continue to carry on the said
business.—Dated this 26th day of February, 1937.
O. J. OFFORD.
(046) A. L. BRUNNING.
Maybe John was sent to a boarding school?
-
Is this the churchyard where Arthur was supposed to have been buried?
https://tylersgreenchurch.uk/burials-by-name-churchyard-east/
-
I can't find a probate for Arthur, strange as he was said to be living on private means..
-
Odd when Arthur's father John Marten Cripps died in 1927 he only left £12.12s 3d.
I'll add to that when his mother Bessie died in 1926 she left £460.15s 3d, so looks like the money came from her.
-
St Anselm House of Prayer where Arthur died.
https://www.vitrx.co.uk/the-history-of-grenville-court-vitrx-head-office/