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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: GreenSub24 on Thursday 01 May 25 02:37 BST (UK)

Title: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Thursday 01 May 25 02:37 BST (UK)
The last information that I can find on Elsie Senior. Is that she was a "Cloth Weaver" in Thornhill, West Yorkshire in 1911. She was 25 yrs. Old. I searched Ancestry.
Her Father was John Hepworth Senior (1861-1896) from Dewsbury. Her Mother was Sarah Ann (Wood) Senior-Mayman (1863-1913) . Both parents are buried at Dewsbury Cemetery.  Does anyone have any ideas where else to look ?
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Kay99 on Thursday 01 May 25 03:03 BST (UK)
Did she marry Arthur Brooke??   They appear together in 1921 in Dewsberry

Elsie Senior
Arthur Brooke
Registration Year    1912
Registration Quarter    Dec
Registration District    Dewsbury
Volume    9b  Page    1379
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Thursday 01 May 25 03:18 BST (UK)
I don't have a clue. I couldn't find anything on Ancestry after 1911.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Kay99 on Thursday 01 May 25 03:27 BST (UK)
Have you tried searching for Elsie Brooke post the marriage in 1921 born 1886 Dewsbury with husband Arthur?   I found them on Anc
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Thursday 01 May 25 03:34 BST (UK)
Kay 99; I saw your findings on Ancestry Thank you. I also noticed several possible other husband's as well. I wish I knew if Elsie had a middle name.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Kay99 on Thursday 01 May 25 03:48 BST (UK)
Have you tried looking for her using other possible married names in 1921?

Kay
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Thursday 01 May 25 04:00 BST (UK)
Kay99; I think I have found Elsie. She died Jan 1971, Dewsbury, Vol. 2b, pg. 867.
Thanks for your help. I'll try running down any possible children. I often Cross check possibilities on findagrave.com.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: amondg on Thursday 01 May 25 09:21 BST (UK)
You could get the marriage certificate 1912 to Arthur Brooke and see who she named as her father.

The address given should be the same or close to where she was living in 1911.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Friday 02 May 25 06:32 BST (UK)
Arthur Brooke fits as He and Elsie adopted a girl named Amy Kershaw in 1921, a orphan from Soothill Nether,West Riding. Amy was born in 1910. I found Amy only one time after in 1939 in Cheshire,England  working as a Assistant Cook. What became of her is a mystery.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Friday 02 May 25 06:42 BST (UK)
I'm stumped as too Arthur Brooke. Did he or didn't he have a middle name? There seems to be a slew of Arthur Brooke's born ant 1881 in or nearby Dewsbury.  How to distinguish the difference.  Ancestry shows so many choices.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 07:38 BST (UK)
As suggested if you get the marriage certificate to Elsie it will have more info on Arthur to help find the correct chap.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 07:48 BST (UK)
Problem with Amy Kershaw is there is another one born 1910 with parents in Rochdale so could be her in 1939  :-\.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 08:10 BST (UK)
Possibly Amy K in 1911 at 40 Pretoria street,  Featherstone, parents Joe and Carrie (Joseph and Caroline?) and several siblings

Piece number 27479, Schedule 292
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 08:16 BST (UK)
I'm stumped as too Arthur Brooke. Did he or didn't he have a middle name? There seems to be a slew of Arthur Brooke's born ant 1881 in or nearby Dewsbury.  How to distinguish the difference.  Ancestry shows so many choices.

If you look at Arthur's birthdate in 1939, it narrows down his registration to a single quarter (assuming he stated dob accurately and his parents didn't register him after the 42 day limit). There is only one who fits on GRO and he is in Dewsbury. MMN Tolson
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 08:25 BST (UK)
Possibly Amy K in 1911 at 40 Pretoria street,  Featherstone, parents Joe and Carrie (Joseph and Caroline?) and several siblings

Piece number 27479, Schedule 292

There are three Amy's registered Q2 1910 (fitting with age on 1921 census), but only one in Pontefract which is the reg district covering Featherstone. MMN Wood.

Joe Kershaw and Carrie Wood appear on same page on index - Q4 1901 Dewsbury. (I was wrong assuming they abbreviated their forenames on census form  ;D)
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 08:26 BST (UK)
Possibly Amy K in 1911 at 40 Pretoria street,  Featherstone, parents Joe and Carrie (Joseph and Caroline?) and several siblings

Piece number 27479, Schedule 292

Also check Carrie and family in 1921, No Amy with them
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: sparrett on Friday 02 May 25 08:32 BST (UK)
Regarding the mention of the Amy KERSHAW in 1939, is anyone able to clarify whether she was a patient or a worker?

I am supposing  it say patient if she was, but I am not certain.
Sue
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 08:33 BST (UK)
One Amy Kershaw married Roland Dawson in Dewsbury district in 1932
They can be found on 1939 register in Dewsbury. Her dob is consistent with a birth in Q2 1910

Another AK married Alfred Licence in Dewsbury RD in 1933, but her birth is in 1905 ( from 1939 register)
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 08:46 BST (UK)
Regarding the mention of the Amy KERSHAW in 1939, is anyone able to clarify whether she was a patient or a worker?

I am supposing  it say patient if she was, but I am not certain.
Sue

If you look at the image, the list of people in residence are either annotated as S (servant) and P (patient)
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: sparrett on Friday 02 May 25 09:01 BST (UK)
Ah yes. Thank you.

In reference to Elsie SENIOR

Her Mother was Sarah Ann (Wood) Senior-Mayman (1863-1913) .

As noted by Lizzie L.
Carrie KERSHAW was nee WOOD.
I wonder if there was a link there.

Sue
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: softly softly on Friday 02 May 25 09:03 BST (UK)
Re Arthur Brooke, going by 1939 war register dob this is his official GRO birth image.

1891 census 3737 49 18
1901 census 4271 46 3      --------   occ--tradesman's clerk
1911 27329                      ------- occ --clerk--confectionery trade
1921                                ------- occ general clerk, confectionery
1939                                ---------   clerk

Parents marriage
Marriages Dec 1874 
BROOKE    Thomas        Dewsbury    9b   1099    
TOLSON    Esther        Dewsbury    9b   1099    

SS
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 09:04 BST (UK)
I wondered too, but Wood is a common name. Worth checking though. To adopt a niece or cousin, when the biological mother had been widowed and left with several young children was quite common
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 09:17 BST (UK)
I wondered too, but Wood is a common name. Worth checking though. To adopt a niece or cousin, when the biological mother had been widowed and left with several young children was quite common

There's a Carrie Wood reg 1879 Dewsbury mmn Boothroyd. Place and date match censuses. And a Sarah Ann Wood reg 1863 mmn Boothroyd, but in Huddersfield not Dewsbury. So no evidence yet that they're sisters.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 15:48 BST (UK)
Carrie Wood father George had a sister Minnie and when she marries one of the witnesses is Elsie Senior

Marriage 19 Sep 1911 Thornhill Lees

Minnie Wood to Jim Armitage Parker

George was married to Lavinia who was Boothroyd and in 1871 they have a daughter Sarah A aged 8
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 15:50 BST (UK)
Carrie Wood father George had a sister Minnie and when she marries one of the witnesses is Elsie Senior

Marriage 19 Sep 1911 Thornhill Lees

Minnie Wood to Jim Armitage Parker

That sounds promising
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 15:56 BST (UK)
Elsie is a witness on Sarah Ann's marriage in 1908
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 15:59 BST (UK)
Elsie is a witness on Sarah Ann's marriage in 1908

Is that her second marriage to Mayman?
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 16:01 BST (UK)
Yes as Sarah Ann Senior widow - father George Wood deceased
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 16:02 BST (UK)
Found it now and Sarah's father was George a cloth fuller, same as carrie's.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 16:07 BST (UK)
Lost the plot a bit now so they were sisters and Sarah was Elsie's mother and it's the adopted daughter Amy Kershaw we think belonged to Carrie is that right?

So she was adopted by her niece and Amy and Elsie were cousins.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: LizzieL on Friday 02 May 25 16:11 BST (UK)
Lost the plot a bit now so they were sisters and Sarah was Elsie's mother and it's the adopted daughter Amy Kershaw we think belonged to Carrie is that right?

So she was adopted by her niece and Amy and Elsie were cousins.

Carrie and Sarah Ann were sisters, but big age difference. Elsie adopted Amy her much younger first cousin. I think
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 16:23 BST (UK)
Yes I agree big age gap but following George and Lavinia through the census all the ages pan out.

In 1871 parents were aged 30 with 3 children and in 1891 aged 50 with the youngest child age 7

Sarah Ann being the oldest and Carrie the second youngest

One of the brothers was Joseph Herbert Wood and he pops up as a marriage witness too
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 16:31 BST (UK)
The 1911 for Joe and Carrie is under Hershaw by the way - have sent a correction
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Friday 02 May 25 17:36 BST (UK)
I saw that Carrie (Wood) husband Joe is identified both as Kershaw and Hershaw. You say its actually Hershaw. I guess it's just poor penmanship from back in the day.
I found the Husband Joe Hershaw died in Jun 1915 at age 37.
Thanks for providing me the updated name.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 17:39 BST (UK)
Sorry no I meant the website had transcribed it as Hershaw by mistake on the 1911 census which I had difficulty finding.

I thought Kershaw was the correct name.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Friday 02 May 25 17:47 BST (UK)
Thanks. I'll go back and correct my Ancestry page. Any idea as to what became of Amy ?
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 02 May 25 21:37 BST (UK)
No I don’t think we’ve pinned her down yet. 

She could be the Amy that Lizzie found a marriage for earlier to Roland Dawson in 1932.

Would need to cross check either her exact date of birth or what fathers name is on the marriage to be sure either way.

Looks like a son died at 18  :(


Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Saturday 03 May 25 00:22 BST (UK)
How likely would have Amy Kershaw changed her Surname from Kershaw to Brooke ? Amy was adopted at age 11 in 1921 by Elise & Arthur Brooke.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 03 May 25 03:52 BST (UK)
If I were in your position Green Sub, I would purchase for the very reasonable fee from GRO the birth of this Amy KERSHAW as discussed above.

KERSHAW, AMY mms WOOD 
GRO  1910
J Quarter
PONTEFRACT  Volume 09C  Page 132.

The exact date of the birth of the Amy KERSHAW who married DAWSON is clear on the 1939 Register.

If the 2 dates agree, you have a good indication you're on the right track.

By the way, the couple are indexed on this register under the misspelling DAUSON

Sue
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Saturday 03 May 25 05:42 BST (UK)
I found that Roland Dawson (1907-1985). Died in Durham Central,Durham,England. I scoured the cemetery's in Durham, and Ipswich. I haven't as yet found him.
Also need to find when Amy (Kershaw) Dawson died and where.
Thanks for your help so far.
Jim
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 03 May 25 06:41 BST (UK)
Amy died in Durham Central as well in Dec 1986.  Same birth date 13 April 1910. 

I did look under Brooke in case she married under that name but would definitely check the Dawson one out first. 

As sparrett says if her date of birth matches the 1939 entry it’s more than probably her. 
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Saturday 03 May 25 06:51 BST (UK)
Any idea where Amy (Kershaw) Dawson, 13Apr1910- December 1986 is buried. I scoured Durham, Ipswich, Dewsbury and Pontefract nothing so far.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 03 May 25 07:41 BST (UK)
No idea about a burial but you could find the address where she died from the death and look up the nearest place.  She could have been cremated of course so bear that in mind.

Might be mention in a local newspaper if you’re lucky, funeral announcement or similar.
Check for her husband as well.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Saturday 03 May 25 16:40 BST (UK)
I thoroughly researched  the Dawson name on findagrave.com  . I only found one R.M. Dawson, having no birth and death dates. Buried at St. Thomas Becket Churchyard,Hampsthwaite, North Yorkshire.
Being across the pond. Not sure of what newspapers I should be looking at for Rowland Dawson obituaries.  I do have access  ability to newspapers through Ancestry.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 03 May 25 17:58 BST (UK)
Ah sorry I didn’t realise you were adrift across the pond!

In that case hopefully someone here with access can have a look for you.

Are you able to get the birth for Amy to check her birth date?  If that is off then Dawson is wrong anyway but am hopeful it’s her.
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Saturday 03 May 25 19:34 BST (UK)
I left a obituary request on the Durham County site. Hoping that someone can find the obituary on both Amy (Kershaw) Dawson and husband Rowland. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 04 May 25 08:19 BST (UK)
Small word of caution, we don’t yet know if she is the right Amy Kershaw without checking her birth certificate to confirm her parents and exact date of birth. 

We need that date to match exactly with the 1939 entry and the death registration for Amy Dawson to be positive she is the same person.

I’ve been to the wrong graves myself thinking they were from my family when they weren’t  :-[
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 04 May 25 09:49 BST (UK)
Small word of caution, we don’t yet know if she is the right Amy Kershaw without checking her birth certificate to confirm her parents and exact date of birth. 

We need that date to match exactly with the 1939 entry and the death registration for Amy Dawson to be positive she is the same person.

I’ve been to the wrong graves myself thinking they were from my family when they weren’t  :-[

Oh, yes indeed!

How many times do we recall during our searches, those little biographies on Find a Grave turned out to be for another person and not the deceased at all.

Wrong spouse, children and event dates. ???

Sue
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 04 May 25 18:26 BST (UK)
Birth details for Amy

Born 13 April 1910
40 Pretoria St
Featherstone

Father Joe coal miner
Mother Carrie formerly Wood

Birth registered by the mother
40 Pretoria St

So phew Amy Dawson is the right lady after all
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: sparrett on Monday 05 May 25 00:35 BST (UK)
Birth details for Amy

Born 13 April 1910
40 Pretoria St
Featherstone

Father Joe coal miner
Mother Carrie formerly Wood

Birth registered by the mother
40 Pretoria St

So phew Amy Dawson is the right lady after all

Absolutely wonderful that someone obtained documentary verification. ;D ;D

It helps you, Green Sub, to move on with certainty to building an accurate family tree.

Sue
Title: Re: Elsie Senior
Post by: GreenSub24 on Monday 05 May 25 01:20 BST (UK)
I'm so very grateful to Sparret(Sue) and Milliepede (Millie). For providing me this fantastic news.  Anytime you need any USA info look me up. Thank you so much.