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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Vintrus on Saturday 26 April 25 10:36 BST (UK)
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Hi all
I am trying to do some research on an ancestor of mine, John Henry Robinson, born Liverpool
Lancashire United Kingdom. Anyway, here is what I have.
John Henry Robinson 26 or 28 May 1868 to 1 Dec 1931. Died Devonport, Tasmania, Australia. Migrated to Australia possibly at the age of 14. My research so far has indicated he was 1 of 6 children.
Lydia Elizabeth Robinson 24 February 1866 - 10 December 1867
Lilian Robinson 21 February 1869 - 1870
Joseph Robinson (unknown what happent to him )
William Robinson 8 March 1872 (unknown what happened to him )
Anne Robinson 8 March 1873 (unknown what happened to her )
Most Baptised or Christened at either Bevington Saint Alban or Saint Peter, Liverpool, Lancashire.
The parents were listed as William and Jane Robinson. My research has indicated that Jane’s Maiden name may have been Bolton and marriage date 24 December 1865 at St Nicholas, Liverpool, Lancashire.
I think William was born in Omrskirk Lancashire in 1842, parents where another William and Elizabeth unknown maiden name.
That’s about all I can find. The entire tree thus far has been put on Familysearch.
Can anybody help me with more information please?
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GRO Births
Lydia Elizabeth Robinson, mothers maiden name Smith,West Derby and Toxteth M 1866,
her baptism gives her father as William a joiner and mother Jane abode Fairfield,
John Henry Robinson, mothers maiden name Bolton, West Derby and Toxteth Park, S 1868 what documentation do you have stating this is one family, are they altogether in a census record , or family bible, John Henry's father appears to be a Carter on his sons baptism, he has an older brother William baptised March 3rd 1867 His birth possibly William ROBINSON mother Bolton West Derby and Toxteth Park M 1867,
Joseph Robinson mother Bolton birth registered West Derby and Toxteth Park M 1870, these three boys are with their parents in 1871 ,
William and Jane possibly have another baby a little girl Annie Robinson mother Bolton West Derby and Toxteth Park D 1874, In 1881 Williams wife is Elizabeth living in Kirkdale
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Hello Vintrus and Welcome to RootsChat
I wonder if you have the correct family in Liverpool. You are dealing with a rather common name.
You haven’t said where your information about John's parents has come from?
John Robinson married Emily Caroline Stephens in 1890 at Port Frederick Tasmania
He is recorded as John Robinson, full age, bachelor, plasterer. He signs John Henry Robinson
There is no mention of his parents on the marriage certificate.
How do you know who his parents were?
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Obituary for John Henry Robinson says he came to Australia about age 14 with his parents.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/67894095?searchTerm=%22John%20RObinson%22
I think you need to search for shipping records for the family.
There is this one -
"Somersetshire” Sailed Dec 1879
Arrival 17 Feb 1880 Launceston onboard “Somersetshire”
William Robinson 45 church of England, no education, Native place Liverpool
Margaret Robinson 35
John 11
Henry 6
Margaret 4
Sarah 2
George 9 mths
Anne (by 1st wife) 13
Passage paid for by Mary P..rd?
Ann, age 13 is recorded as a child from William's first wife.
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This looks to be the birth registrations and baptisms of the younger Robinson children on the passenger list
ROBINSON, GEORGE Mother - CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 172
George Robinson baptism Liverpool St Peters 3 Aug 1879
Son of William (labourer) and Margaret Robinson
ROBINSON, SARAH Mother - CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 188
baptism Liverpool St Peters 31 July 1877
Daughter of William (labourer) and Margaret Robinson. Gerard Street
ROBINSON, MARGARET Mother - CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 187
Bapt Liverpool St Peters 19 Mar 1876, born 2 Nov 1875
Daughter of William (labourer) and Margaret Robinson. Gerard Street
ROBINSON, HENRY Mother - CHAPMAN
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 197
Bapt Liverpool St Peters 17 Aug 1873
Son of William (Porter) and Margaret Robinson. Gerard Street
MARRIAGE
19 March 1876 Liverpool
William Robinson 39 Widower, carter, Gerard Street. Father – John Robinson coachmaker
Margaret Chapman 32 spinster, Gerard Street. Father – Henry Chapman Customs officer
William and Margaret had another child – this time born in Launceston, Tasmania in 1885
Mary Robinson born 31 May 1885
Father William Henry Robinson labourer
Mother Margaret Sarah Robinson formerly Chapman
Both bride and groom sign with X
Witnesses – Henry Chapman and Sarah Ann Cavanagh
EDIT to add
Looks like there was another child Sarah Jane born in 1871 and died in 1872 Liverpool.
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I think the family by Neale looks very likely.
There are some interesting items on trove relating to William and Margaret ROBINSON eg:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/90544146 (18 Oct 1884)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/199534431 (3 Apr 1886)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/153494807 (1896 death of William)
[death certificate: William Henry ROBINSON, died 12 Feb 1896 aged 65, labourer, born England]
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/153943659 (1903 death of son Henry)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/35570842 (1903 death of Margaret )
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/35570892 (funeral notice Margaret)
In the funeral notice and item about Margaret's death it notes son-in-law "S CLARKE" and "A G CLARK", most likely Sterling George CLARKE who married Sarah ROBINSON 14 May 1902.
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William Henry ROBINSON
Died 12 Feb 1896 Launceston Hospital
Male 65 yrs, born England
Labourer
Brights disease (Dr. Charles parker)
Margaret Sarah ROBINSON
Died 9 Nov 1903
23 Laura St Launceston
Epileptic fit.
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It is difficult to see the family who emigrated to Tasmania in the 1871 census
Margaret Chapman was with William well before they married, so this might be them in 1871.
1871 census Liverpool, St Anne, Lower myrtle street
Wm Robinson head 35 labourer born Liverpool
Margaret wife 27 born Liverpool
Mary Ellen 16 daughter born Liverpool
Hannah 6 daughter born Liverpool
John 4 son born Liverpool
Maybe someone else will have more success.
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Is this the Robinson family you were looking at? ……….. I’m not sure it is correct.
William Robinson
Bapt March 1867 Bevington Liverpool
Son of William (carter) and Jane. Opie Street
John Henry Robinson
Baptism 21 June 1868 (born 28 May) St Alban Bevington Liverpool
Son of William (carter) and Jane. Opie Street
Joseph Robinson Bevington Liverpool
Bapt Jan 1870
Son of William (carter) and Jane. Conway street
Mother’s Maiden name is BOLTON on the birth registrations
That family is living in Conway street in the 1871 census Everton.
William Robinson married Jane Bolton in 1865 Liverpool
Bride and groom both signed their name.
William’s father is named William – a butcher
Details on this marriage don’t tally with the marriage for William Henry Robinson to Margaret Chapman.
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Yes Neale1961 Thats the one I have been looking at as being correct as Johns birth date is 2 days off the date I was given for this birthday by my own grandfather (John Henry Robinson Grandson) from his genealogy research before he passed away. I also found a census record and i believe this to this to be them from 1871 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGT-KSB?lang=en
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1851 census Peter Lane, Liverpool,
Henry Chapman aged 44 a tide waiter born Ireland,
Sarah his wife aged 39 born Ireland,
Henry aged 10 born Liverpool,
Margaret aged 6 born Liverpool,
Hannah aged 4,
Baptism records
John Chapman son of Henry Chapman customs officer and his wife Sarah, St Peter Liverpool,8th March 1839 abode Paradise St
Sarah is this young Margaret, St Peter Liverpool 10th March 1843, father Henry officer in the customs ,mother Sarah abode Peter Lane,
added GRO births,
Chapman John, mother Dowling,Liverpool M 1839,
Chapman Henry,mother Dowling, Liverpool D 1840,
Chapman Sarah, mother Dowling ,Liverpool M 1843
Chapman Sarah Margaret,mother Dowling,Liverpool, D 1844
Chapman Hannah, mother Dowling, Liverpool , M 1847,
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Birth registration
CHAPMAN, SARAH MARGARET mother - DOWLING
GRO Reference: 1844 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 326
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Hi Vintrus. Your reply has been slow in showing up online because you were new, but now your replies will appear in real time, and it will be easier to communicate.
It looks as if there has been a mistake along the way, and one Robinson family from Liverpool was confused with another. It is easily done when researching such a common name. There were certainly plenty of Robinsons in the Liverpool area at the same time as your ancestors. I wonder if your grandfather was aware of the immigration records for your family coming to Tasmania. Those are important documents to consider as a starting point for your research.
It doesn’t help that incorrect information has been posted on the “Find a Grave” site for your John Henry Robinson. You can see that the grave stone and the cemetery records give no birth date at all. Someone has come along, plucked a birth date out of the many available possible records and added it to the site without the necessary research and verification. This has lead you to a particular Robinson family that you have identified in the 1871 census, but there is no evidence that they emigrated to Tasmania. They don't seem to be the right family. The dots just don’t join up.
Many years ago, I took over the family genealogy from beginning research done by my forebears. As I learned, and became more experienced, the tree grew. But along the way, I had to go back and make corrections to earlier research. I think mostly everyone on RootsChat will have had similar experiences. We understand that it is easy to make one mistake or wrong assumption which then sends you off down the completely wrong path.
It is easy to find records and make them fit a family tree. If it is important that you have the correct information on your tree, then really careful and thorough research is advised.
There are lots of people on RootsChat who are willing to help – just let us know.
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This might encourage you to explore the family onboard “Somersetshire” in 1879
This is Margaret Robinson born 1875 - sister to John Robinson who is seen on the ships passenger list ……..
MARRIAGE 23rd Dec 1896 Launceston
William Charles COCHRANE, 23 bachelor, born Boston, mining agent
to
Margaret ROBINSON, 20, spinster, born Liverpool
Her father - William Henry Robinson deceased; mother Margaret Sarah Robinson
Witness at the marriage – Emily Robinson, Devonport
(Emily is the wife of your John Henry Robinson, and confirms a family link)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99CH-HQTC?view=index&action=view&cc=2125029&lang=en
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Another sibling, George Robinson married in 1928
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2S1-GTQF?lang=en
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What is your source for this information? Where are you seeing this?
My research so far has indicated he was 1 of 6 children.
Lydia Elizabeth Robinson 24 February 1866 - 10 December 1867
Lilian Robinson 21 February 1869 - 1870
Joseph Robinson (unknown what happent to him )
William Robinson 8 March 1872 (unknown what happened to him )
Anne Robinson 8 March 1873 (unknown what happened to her )
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my research indicated he was one of 4
from this census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGT-KSB?lang=en
his birthdate from a book left to me my grandpa with the the date 26 May 1868 matched with this
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKFB-MD6?lang=en which was inly 2 days difference 4th was born after this census Annie found in christening records for john H church
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my research indicated he was one of 4
from this census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGT-KSB?lang=en
his birthdate from a book left to me my grandpa with the the date 26 May 1868 matched with this
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NKFB-MD6?lang=en which was inly 2 days difference 4th was born after this census Annie found in christening records for john H church
Yes, the birth date is correct for the John Henry Robinson in that particular family.
However, that family never emigrated to Tasmania, so it is not “your” ancestor.
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problem with Margaret one is John is to young he migrated at 14 not 11 so there is a problem with that to
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However I was thinking maybe Jane died and William remarried that would account for everything except where joe and william went but not why there is a different fathers name for William marriage to Margaret .
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problem with Margaret one is John is to young he migrated at 14 not 11 so there is a problem with that to
Of course, that information is third hand, because John was dead and couldn’t be consulted. The newspaper journalist reported from memories of stories from either John’s widow, or one of his children. It is remarkable that they were so close to accurate - only a couple of years out in age.
There are several records with facts pointing you in the right direction, but in the end, it is your choice to follow them or not.
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I think the evidence is pointing to the parents of John Henry ROBINSON who died in Devonport in 1931 are William and Margaret.
However, for the other family - some other details:
At the same address, though in the next household (on the next page) at 78 Conroy St, Everton to William and Jane ROBINSON and family in 1871:
John BOLTON 62 Melling (lab for corporation)
Ann 59 Sefton
RG10/3814/43 pg29
William ROBINSON, wid, labourer married Elizabeth LYON, spin, on 8 April 1877 at St Simon's Liverpool (both full age). His father - William ROBINSON, butcher (same as on marriage to Jane BOLTON); her father James LYON, stone dresser.
Possibly this death:
Jane ROBINSON Mar qtr 1876 West Derby and Toxteth Park (8b/334) aged 35.
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You have the family of William and Elizabeth ROBINSON in Kirkdale in 1881 (from Radcliffe in reply #1) at 393 Fountain Rd.
William ROBINSON 39 Ormskirk (carter)
Elizabeth 42 Kirby
William 14 Liverpool (apprentice pattern maker)
John H 12 Liverpool (scholar)
Annie 6
RG11/3635/98 pg19
This looks like them in 1891 at 49 Arley St, Liverpool:
William ROBINSON 49 Liverpool (general labourer)
Elizabeth 52 Kirby
Annie 16 Liverpool (shop woman)
RG12/2900/105 pg39
So if your John Henry ROBINSON arrived in Australia aged 14 (c1882) with his parents, this cannot be the correct family.
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In 1901 at 8 Hotspur St, Kirkdale:
William ROBINSON 59 Ormskirk (steamship porter)
Elizabeth 62 Kirby
Richard HUSSELBY 60 (wid, boarder) Womtown, Staff, (provison porter)
RG13/3471/130 pg 44
In 1911 at 8 Hotspur St, Kirkdale:
Elizabeth ROBINSON (wid) 72 Kirby
William WINSON 56 (boarder) High Bebbington, Cheshire (dock labourer)
Possibly this death for William:
William ROBINSON Jun qtr 1904 West Derby (8b/254) aged 62
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That’s great, maddys52
Hopefully all your posts with various detail will help Vintrus understand why the family he had found cannot be correct.
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Regarding the immigration of your Robinson family in 1880 to Tasmania
The ticket was paid for by Mrs Mary POND of Launceston. She applied to sponsor them in Sep 1879.
She paid 80 pounds for their passage, which was a lot of money in those days, so her husband must have been successful in work. ( He had a fancy goods emporium in Launceston.)
From the “Applications for Immigrant Bounty Tickets” we see that she was paying for the passage of her relations:-
William Robinson - her brother (and family), and Annie Robinson – her niece.
She also applied for Mary Ellen Robinson – her niece, but this was later cancelled.
Mary Ellen was a child from William’s first marriage. She is with her father and the rest of the family in the 1871 census.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VBX1-12N?lang=en
In 1883 Liverpool, Mary Ellen married John McCormick
Birth registration
ROBINSON, MARY ELLEN Mother’s maiden name - ROONEY
GRO Reference: 1854 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 54
The other daughter -
Annie (Hannah) Robinson birth rego in 1865 Liverpool with Mother’s maiden name ROONEY
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WHO was MARY POND?
Mary ROBINSON married on 22nd July 1850 Hobart to John POND
She died 29th Dec 1906 Launceston.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/38119544?searchTerm=Pond
I am still looking to see when and how she came to Australia – I am short of time at the moment.
I think she may have been a convict, and also paid for other Robinsons to come to Tasmania.
Potentially something very interesting.
EDIT TO ADD See next post.
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Some baptisms for the Robinson family in Liverpool
Baptism for Mary ROBINSON , Liverpool St Peter
10 April 1826
Daughter of John and Ellen Robinson (coachmaker of Circus St)
Baptism for William Henry ROBINSON, Liverpool St Peter
7 Jun 1829
Son of John and Ellen Robinson (coachmaker of Clayton St)
Baptism for William ROBINSON, Liverpool St Peter
23 Jun 1830 (another bapt for the same child? Or the first one died as a baby)
Son of John and Ellen Robinson (coachmaker of Chapel Lane)
Baptism for Samuel ROBINSON, Liverpool St Peter
19 Nov 1832
Son of John and Ellen Robinson (coachmaker of Mill Street East)
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A bit more info on Mary Robinson (continued from previous reply #25) .....................
Mary Robinson age 18, nurse and needle girl from Liverpool, arrived in Tasmania as a convict in 1845 on board “Tory”.
Sentenced in 1844 for 7 years for larceny. She names members of her family on 1 of her records: Father – John, 3 brothers – Henry, Wm & Geo. all in Liverpool.
Certificate of Freedom in 1851
Convict records available online at Libraries Tasmania
Good summary here (scroll down)
https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/robinson/mary/10970
She had permission in 25 June 1850 to marry convict John Pond per “Pestongee Bomangee”
In 1859 Mary’s husband John Pond paid for the passage of her family to Tasmania.
Onboard “Argonaut” arriving 3 Oct 1859 were her parents, her brother George and Ann Jane.
John Robinson 59 labourer,
Ellen Robinson 58 wife,
George Robinson 20 labourer,
Ann Jane Robinson 14 general Servant
Her father John Robinson (age 78) died 2 Dec 1877 in Launceston
Her mother Ellen Robinson (age 83) died 23 Dec 1882 in Launceston
By the time William Robinson and family had arrived in Tasmania in 1880, his father had died, but his mother was still alive.
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George Robinson birth registration in 1838 Liverpool gives mother’s name as LINNACRE
Ann Jane Robinson birth registration in 1844 Liverpool gives mother’s name as LINAERS.
This leads to the marriage in Liverpool, St. Marks
1 May 1825
John ROBINSON to Ellen LINECAR
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NXWR-TNY?lang=en
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Following on from reply #26, here is Mary Robinson's committal; I can't find anything about the actual trial.
21 October 1844: Liverpool Albion
Mary Robinson was brought up, at the same time, on a charge of having robbed Thomas Hall, a ship-carpenter, of upwards of £9. 10s. The complainant stated, that he slept on board the brig Wonder, at present lying in the George's Dock, and that on Thursday last he received the amount of his wages in nine sovereigns, two crowns, and three half-crowns. He put the money in a green cotton purse, which he placed in his watch fob; and, about ten o'clock the same night, he met the prisoner, whom he asked to show him the way to George's Dock. She took him to different places, until he became perfectly fatigued, and, at length, she escorted him to a house in Union-court, Banastre-street, where he was robbed of every shilling in his possession. The prisoner was fully committed for trial.
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Scene of the crime: mid-19th century town plan showing Banastre Street and Union Court.
For any Liverpool enthusiasts: move the slider to reveal the modern map (Banastre Street is buried under Leeds Street).
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=19.3&lat=53.41309&lon=-2.98733&layers=117746212&b=osm&o=100 (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=19.3&lat=53.41309&lon=-2.98733&layers=117746212&b=osm&o=100)
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Wow this is all incredible info thank you so much from the bottom of my heart.
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Adding a bit more for the extended Robinson family in Tasmania ………
George ROBINSON married Ann DILWORTH 19 Aug 1861 Launceston – about 12 children born
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q279-QGVL?lang=en
Ann Jane ROBINSON married John Laurence WENN on 7th Oct 1870 at the home of Mrs Pond in Launceston – abt 12 children
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q279-7GHN?lang=en
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Further family information for
Ellen LINECAR who married John ROBINSON in 1825 ....................
Baptisms in Liverpool : Our Lady and St Nicholas
• Mary Linnacre born 24 Jan 1794
Daughter of Henry Linnacre (carter) and Ellen nee Dunn. Abode Circus Street
• William Linaker born 11 Sept 1798
Son of Henry Linaker (labourer) and Ellen nee Dunn. Abode Circus Street
• Ellen Linekar born 15 Apr 1801; baptised 24 May 1801
Daughter of Henry Linekar (labourer) and Ellen, nee Dunn. Abode Circus Street
• Mary Linekar born 28 Apr 1803
Daughter of Henry Linekar (labourer) and Ellen, nee Dunn. Abode Circus Street
• Henry Linekar born 21 Dec 1808
Son of Henry Linekar (labourer) and Ellen, nee Dunn. Abode Circus Street
• Mary Linekar born 6 Nov 1812
Daughter of Henry Linekar (labourer) and Ellen, nee Dunn. Abode Circus Street
MARRIAGE
28 Dec 1790 Liverpool : St John the Baptist
Henry LINAKER labourer of Liverpool to Ellen DUNN spinster of Liverpool
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNMJ-K5W?lang=en
BURIAL 10 June 1830
Henry LINACRE, age 68. Abode Circus Street.
Necropolis Low Hill, Everton
BURIAL 29 Apr 1832
Ellen LINACRE (nee Dunn) age 65. Abode Circus Street
Cause of death – Hooping cough
Necropolis Low Hill, Everton. Grave 6272
Source - FreeREG
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The birth registrations of the children born to William Robinson’s first wife, show their mother’s maiden name was ROONEY.
I haven’t found a marriage for William Robinson to a Rooney in the Liverpool area. Rooney sounds Irish, and interestingly William’s second wife, Margaret Chapman came from Irish parents.
The Robinson family seem to be difficult to find in the 1861 census. I have had no luck.
Apart from the 2 daughters - Mary Ellen born in 1854 and Ann born in 1865, there were 4 sons born to this first marriage, who all appear to have died in infancy or early childhood.
William Robinson born 1856,
Henry Robinson born 1858,
James Robinson 1860,
George Robinson 1862.
I think you would need to purchase the birth certificate of one of the children, to get the Christian name of the mother. Then from there it might be easier to find a marriage, and her death.
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I finally found the missing family member - Henry Robinson
His passage to Tasmania was also paid for by John Pond . £16
Henry Robinson, 28, labourer from Liverpool arrived 31 Oct 1861 onboard “Prince of the Seas”
Death for him in Launceston on 6 Jan 1891
Henry Robinson born in England, 62 years, labourer.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/39561673?searchTerm=%22Henry%20Robinson%22
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After some head scratching, I now think that Henry was the oldest son. His baptism was in 1829 with the name William Henry, but he was known as Henry or at times Henry William.
Your direct ancestor was next and was baptised in 1830 as William, but sometimes appears on records as William Henry.
How is that for confusing. ???
Samuel baptised in 1832 died of measles at 1yr 5 months. His burial was 15 April 1834 at Liverpool necropolis. Grave 5761.
Then George was the youngest boy born in 1838.
Mary’s convict record lists her brothers in age order- Henry, William and George
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The best place for questions is here on this thread, rather than PM. This allows multiple people to help.
You wrote:-
there are 4 mystery's that have perplexed
1 Robinson that came John Williams father the servant aged 14? Ann Jane ROBINSON is she a relation or is the last name a coincidence
what happened to John Henry's brother George and Henry who traveled with him and Sarah I think I may hay have found Marriage for her in New Norfolk Tasmania
https://libraries.tas.gov.au/Record/NamesIndex/916438
and I cant seem to find what happened to Annie aka Hannah his Half Sister.
Ann Jane ROBINSON born 1844 Liverpool is the youngest child of John ROBINSON and Ellen LINECAR
(see reply #27)
Re - Sarah ROBINSON b.1877 Liverpool, daughter of William Robinson and Margaret Chapman.
(See reply #5 by maddys52)
Marriage in Longford on 14 May 1902 to Sterling George CLARKE
I can see she died in 1963 Victoria with the married name Sarah CLARKE
Deaths Registration number13996 / 1963
Family name: CLARKE
Given name(s) Sarah
Place of event: Camberwell East, Australia
Mother's name Margaret CHAPMAN
Father's Name: ROBINSON William Henry
Re -
George ROBINSON b 1879 Liverpool, son of William Robinson and Margaret Chapman
Henry ROBINSON b. 1873 Liverpool, son of William Robinson and Margaret Chapman
I haven’t gone looking for them at this stage. If you don’t find them in Tasmania the next place would be to look on the mainland – Vic, NSW, etc.
Re -
Ann ROBINSON born 1865 Liverpool, daughter of William Robinson and Wife Rooney.
Maybe the death in Launceston in 1908? It is on the index, but the record is not online yet, so not certain if it is correct for that Ann. If it is not her, look further to the mainland
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Vintrus, There has been so much information posted so far, that it can become overwhelming.
Perhaps go back and review the thread from the start, making notes of info that you might have missed.
I have attempted a very brief summary of Robinson families so far to try to help.
Family of John ROBINSON and Ellen LINACRE/ LINAKER – both emigrated to Tasmania 1859
• Mary 1826 Liverpool (convict to VDL in 1845)
• William Henry 1829 Liverpool (known as Henry or Henry William) - emigrated to Tasmania 1861
• William 1830 Liverpool (known as William or William Henry) - emigrated to Tasmania 1880 with family
• Samuel 1832 Liverpool; died 1834 Liverpool
• George 1838 Liverpool - emigrated to Tasmania 1859
• Ann Jane 1844 Liverpool - emigrated to Tasmania 1859
1st Family of William ROBINSON with wife unknown ROONEY
• Mary Ellen 1854 Liverpool (married in 1883 Liverpool)
• William 1856 Liverpool; died as infant / child Liverpool
• Henry 1858 Liverpool; died as infant / child Liverpool
• James 1860 Liverpool; died as infant / child Liverpool
• George 1862 Liverpool; died as infant / child Liverpool
• Ann 1865 Liverpool - emigrated to Tasmania 1880
2nd Family of William ROBINSON with wife Margaret CHAPMAN - both emigrated to Tasmania 1880
• John abt 1868 Liverpool (birth registration not yet found) - emigrated to Tasmania 1880
• Sarah Jane 1871 Liverpool, died 1872 Liverpool
• Henry 1873 Liverpool - emigrated to Tasmania 1880
• Margaret 1875 Liverpool - emigrated to Tasmania 1880
• Sarah 1877 Liverpool - emigrated to Tasmania 1880
• George 1879 Liverpool - emigrated to Tasmania 1880
• Eliza 1883 Tasmania, died 1884 Tasmania
• Mary 1885 Tasmania (**see info below in next post)
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**Mary ROBINSON born 1885 Launceston (daughter of William Robinson and Marg Chapman)
Married 13 march 1907 in NZ to Charles Ernest PETTERD
Son - Carlyle Charles PETTERD born 1906 Launceston
Daughter - Cassie PETTERD born 1907 NZ
Daughter - Winnifred PETTERD born 1909 NZ
1910 Charles Ernest Petterd charged with wife desertion. (He ended up in USA)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/251649633?searchTerm=%22Charles%20Ernest%20Petterd%22
2nd marriage Mary to Edward RICE 1930 NSW
Mary Died in 27 April 1965 Penrith NSW
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Thanks Neale for the helpful summary.
1st Family of William ROBINSON with wife unknown ROONEY
• Mary Ellen 1854 Liverpool (married in 1883 Liverpool)
• William 1856 Liverpool; died as infant / child Liverpool
• Henry 1858 Liverpool; died as infant / child Liverpool
• James 1860 Liverpool; died as infant / child Liverpool
• George 1862 Liverpool; died as infant / child Liverpool
• Ann 1865 Liverpool - emigrated to Tasmania 1880
There is a baptism at Liverpool of Mary Ellen ROBINSON on 21 July 1854 (born 15 July 1854) with parents William and Sarah. Unfortunately I can only see a transcription. Just a possibility - the birth fits with the registration Sept qtr 1854 at Liverpool (8b/54) mmn ROONEY.
As I think was suggested earlier, to find William ROBINSON's first wife's name it would be best to purchase one of the birth certificates. £3.00 digital images are very economical.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
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Hi Vintrus, How are you going following up on all those Robinsons?
I found John Robinson in 1851 census in the Liverpool Workhouse, Mount pleasant.
”John Robinson, age 51, married, pauper, coachmaker journeyman, born Liverpool.”
Piece 2183, Folio 647, page 22 (Odd, it doesn’t seem to appear on the FamilySearch site)
Ellen Robinson and the children are probably in the workhouse too, but they are not listed with John in a family group. There are so many pages of difficult to read writing to search through, I lost the stamina. Anyway, it indicates that the family were impoverished, with the head of the house out of work – probably had been for a while, which is why Mary ended up stealing money.
It also confirms that John was born abt 1800 in Liverpool. That agrees with his age on the ship passenger list and age at death.
I have had a look at various possible John Robinson births around this time. The problem is it is a very common name. The most probable family based on logical assumptions, place, dates and names, I have detailed below. Unfortunately there are no guarantees.
Possible birth for John ROBINSON
- Born 21 May 1800; bapt 25 July 1800 Liverpool, Our Lady St Nicholas
Son of John Robinson (rope maker) ad Ann (nee Lyon), Abode Lawton Street
MARRIAGE - 21 March 1784 Our Lady St Nicholas, Liverpool
John ROBINSON Ropemaker of Liverpool to Ann LYON spinster of Liverpool
Children: taken from baptism records (Source FreeREG)
• Elizabeth Robinson b. 5 Jul 1784 - d/o John and Ann - Ropemaker – Hay Market
• Mary Robinson b. 1 Nov 1785 - d/o John and Ann - Ropemaker – Hay Market
• Mary Robinson b. 1 Sep 1787 - d/o John and Ann - Ropemaker – Cropper Street
• Ann Robinson b. 26 Jun 1789 - d/o John and Ann - Ropemaker – Cropper Street
• Sarah Robinson b. 24 Mar 1791 - d/o John and Ellen (sic) - Ropemaker – Newington Street
• John Robinson b. 19 Dec 1792 - S/o John and Ann - Ropemaker – Newington Street
• Alice Robinson b. 23 Jan 1795 – 7th child, d/o John and Ann Lyon - Ropemaker – Brownlow Hill
• William Robinson b. 23 Dec 1796 - S/o John and Ann - Ropemaker – Chappel Lane
• Jane Robinson b. 06 Oct 1798 - d/o John and Ann Lyon - Ropemaker – Lawton Street
• John Robinson b. 21 May 1800 - S/o John and Ann Lyon - Ropemaker – Lawton Street
1841 census - This might be John Robinson (senior, rope maker) in the workhouse
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ21-D99?lang=en
DEATHS -You would need to look at the death registrations to see if these are for the correct people
Possible Burial Ann Robinson (nee Lyon) (age 78) spouse of John Robinson
18 Feb 1840 Liverpool
Registration - ROBINSON, ANN Age 78
GRO Reference: 1840 M Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 390
Possible Burial John Robinson (age 77)
17 Oct 1842 Liverpool workhouse
Registration - ROBINSON, JOHN Age 77
GRO Reference: 1842 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 20 Page 307
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If the above death is correct then ……………
Ann LYON – daughter of William Lyon, a potter
Baptism 30 Aug 1761, born 14 Aug 1761 Liverpool St Peter
Other children -
Hugh 1763
Thomas 1765
Mary 1767
Alice 1771
William 1773
John 1775
MARRIAGE 16 Feb 1761 Liverpool St Peter
William LYON potter of Liverpool to Elizabeth SWIFT Spinster of Liverpool
Both made marks X Witnesses – Wm Brown, Hugh Peel
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Hi all, research is going very well. I have located almost all burial information Robinson + Partners for Tasmania. I'm working mainly on later generations of George Robinson (Williams Brother) now.
Thanks for all the info Neale will talk again soon.
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... I'm working mainly on later generations of George Robinson (Williams Brother) now.
Regarding William’s brother – George Robinson and his wife Ann Dilworth.
George and Ann obviously knew each other in Liverpool, and Ann gave birth to George’s son, 2 months after George had sailed off to Australia.
Baby George was born 20 Dec 1859 in Liverpool, and baptised 31st Jan 1860.
He was baptised as George ROBINSON, but his birth registration was as George DILLWORTH – under his mother’s name, because his parents were not yet married.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939F-5W97-YX?i=625&lang=en
Guess who came to the rescue - - Mary and John Pond who paid for the emigration of Ann Dilworth and child to Tasmania. Ann and infant George sailed on the “Shalimar” to Melbourne, and then on the “Havilah III” to Launceston, arriving early August 1861. Without delay, on 19 August 1861, Ann and George married in Launceston.
Ships Passenger lists are viewable here -
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/passenger-records-and-immigration
That infant, George Robinson eventually married in 1883 to Rachel Cecily Monaghan
He died in Lunawanna on Bruny Island on 13 Feb 1928 (age 69)
Death notice - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/24194062?searchTerm=%22George%20Robinson%22
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Were William Henry Robinson's children John, Margaret, Henry and Sarah born out of wedlock? Their birth dates don't match with the wedding.
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The short answer is YES. See reply #4.
Their marriage was in March 1876, but it is clear that William and Margaret were together from much earlier. You have them living together as “married” in the 1871 census.
There are various possible reasons for them not marrying earlier.
The first child with a birth registered to Robinson – Chapman was Sarah Jane. Sarah Jane was born 7 Nov 1871 in Liverpool. She was baptised late on 19 Sept 1872, probably because she was very unwell. Her burial was 27 Sept 1872 at Walton Park cemetery.
The last of the children born to Robinson – Rooney was Ann. Her birth registered in early 1865.
So you have a gap in knowledge between 1865 and 1871. There are several posts about how to discover the name of William’s first wife, so her death can be established, and try to fill in this gap.
During this gap, John Henry was born. Records suggest he was born in 1867. But his mother is still unknown. A baptism record for him has not been found. There is no birth registration for him under either mother - Rooney or mother - Chapman
There is this birth registration which might be worth further investigation:-
ROBINSON, JOHN HENRY Mother - WOOLAM
GRO Reference: 1867 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 210