RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: tejjy on Sunday 20 April 25 13:43 BST (UK)
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I'm struggling with the origins of a Thomas Robb (I'm in Australia, with public library access to Ancestry). What I know is that:
1.) he married Anna Cunningham in 1853 (in Saintfield)
2.) he married Mary McNeight in 1858 (in Magheragall)
3.) he had a daughter, Jane Anna, prob. 1859
4.) a son, John, June 1861 (although I can't document the June)
5.) he got himself into the newspapers in 1861, stealing (allegedly) his wife's brother's cashbox
6.) he took the family to Australia in late 1861, arriving 1862
7.) I have his life in Australia moderately well covered if anyone is interested
I also have a Mary Ann Robb who married Robert Longwill in 1859; a Thomas Robb was one of the witnesses.
According to the various marriage certificates, Thomas's and Mary's father was called Andrew. On the 1853 & 1858 certificates, Andrew is described as a soldier; on Mary's in 1859, a printer.
What I would like to find is a specific birth date for Thomas, and more about his parents, and potentially other relatives. The Ireland genealogy site hasn't helped much for Andrew. Of course he (they all) may have been born elsewhere. There's some information from 1873 suggesting Thomas considered himself Scottish.
Can anyone help me with sources? I know about the 1922 fire, but I wondered if there might be alternative records/archives in the North?
thanks in anticpation
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Civil registration of births (as well as deaths & Catholic marriages started in 1864, from 1845 for non-Catholic marriages) so there will be no birth certificate and you need to locate church records to see if a baptism record survives. Do you know what religion the family were?
In 1853 Thomas Robb's occupation was painter and the ceremony was at Saintfield Church of Ireland-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09452/5424923.pdf
Marriages usually take place in the bride's church.
The second marriage in 1858 was Presbyterian-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09553/5463392.pdf
The marriage of Robert Longwill and Mary Ann Robb (age 19 so born c1840) took place in Alfred St. Presbyterian Church, Belfast. Her father also Andrew Robb but is his occupation painter (like Thomas Robb) rather than printer?
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1859/09564/5467841.pdf
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Marriage of William Robb of Saintfield in 1848 (Saintfield COI) lists father as Andrew Robb, carver & gilder-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1848/09351/5386329.pdf
Wonder if these might also be related somehow?
James Robb, widower, painter, Lisburn, son of Robert Robb, painter-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10578/5853478.pdf
James Robb's first marriage in 1882 was Methodist (James age 21 so born c1861)-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10982/8014710.pdf
Looks like James Robb's father was related!
Marriage of Robert Robb, painter, Rosstrevor, father Andrew Robb, soldier-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09551/5462902.pdf
Lots more to find in civil registrations.
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Daughter born 1864-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1864/03599/2327298.pdf
Flora Kelly Longwill born 1866-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1866/03512/2291638.pdf
Robert Longwill born 1868-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1868/03433/2260206.pdf
Mary Hamilton Longwill born 1870-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1870/03327/2219628.pdf
Thomas Henry Longwill born 1873-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1873/03201/2173975.pdf
Frances Charlotte Longwell born 1877- informant is a Mary F. Robb of Chapel Hill, Lisburn-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1877/02991/2096191.pdf
Possible marriage?
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1907/10087/5669240.pdf
Robert Longwill, husband of Mary Ann, died 1878-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020504/7195435.pdf
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Robert Robb, housepainter, died 1912- informant son James Robb-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05368/4497079.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Lisburn/Bachelors_Walk/1000413/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Lisburn/Bachelors_Walk/200821/
son James-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Lisburn/Westbourne_Terrace/1001913/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Lisburn/Bachelors_Walk/200828/
Mary Ferguson Robb, age 74, widow of Thomas Robb a painter, died 1911- informant son-in-law Thomas Moore-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1911/05406/4510275.pdf
Household of Thomas & Jane Anna Moore-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clifton__Belfast_Urban_No__2/Hughenden_Avenue/134432/
Thomas Moore & Jane Anna Robb married in Dublin-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10976/8012320.pdf
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Mary Ann Longwell (nee Robb), widow, with some family in 1901-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls_Ward/Cupar_Street/979797/
Daughter Francess Charlott Longwell, age 23 in household.
Birth of Florence Steel, Mary Ann Longwell's granddaughter was born 1898-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1898/02076/1792485.pdf (Florence Madeline, daughter of James Steel & Florence Charlotte Longwell)
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thanks for all this; the William Robb m/c is intriguing indeed, because he is marrying a Cunningham, whose father is a cooper, exactly as was Thomas's first wife. it's interesting b/c of a new profession for the father Andrew Robb, carver/gilder. i think that fits quite will with printer (i don't think it's painter, despite the sons' professions, b/c there are 'a''s for comparison) but complicates the problem of 'soldier'.
On religion, Thomas Robb would have
married anyone who could buy him a drink… But I would guess Presbyterian.
i'll have to look into James & Richard too. cheers, thanks again
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...... it's interesting b/c of a new profession for the father Andrew Robb, carver/gilder. i think that fits quite will with printer (i don't think it's painter, despite the sons' professions, b/c there are 'a''s for comparison) but complicates the problem of 'soldier'.
......
A gilder is more associated with being a painter than a printer. Gilding like marbling was a specialised part of painting esp in older more palatial houses where they might have applied gilding to decorative elements such as a boss.
'In architecture, a "boss" is a decorative element, typically a knob or projection, found at the intersection of ribs or vaults in a ceiling or wall. These bosses, often made of stone or wood, serve both structural and ornamental purposes, adding visual interest and sometimes helping to support the structure. They are commonly seen in Gothic architecture, particularly in cathedrals and churches, where they are often elaborately carved with various motifs.'
(Mrs Google)
Reading up I can see where the carver comes in as often the painting would involve restoration of missing pieces of the decorative pieces before applying the gilding.
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Ah, well, now that's interesting. So it becomes a question of handwriting. "Painter" certainly makes good narrative sense since, assuming it's all the same Andrew Robb, three of his sons were unambiguously painters.
But in the attachment you can see the "r" in printer and contrast it with the "a" in Shaw, just below. And my bigger problem is whether he was a soldier between 1849-58.
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Found quite a bit of information but not sure how some of it fits so a few questions-
1) did your Thomas Robb die in Melbourne, Australia in 1886?
2) Did Thomas' widow Mary (McNeight) Robb stay in Australia?
3) Did daughter Jane Anna marry? (if so, who was her husband?)
4) Did Thomas and Mary have a daughter Elizabeth?
In case you think this later information isn't important just trust me and I will explain everything which ties it all together.
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sharp questions!
A Thomas Robb died in Melbourne ('sanguineous apoplexy') in 1886; i think he is my man, but the inquest evidence is circumstantial. There was an Elizabeth Robb born in Smythesdale, parents Thomas & Mary. Thomas, Mary and John and Jane Anna came to Australia in 1861 and went home with Elizabeth in 1874. I have always assumed that Thomas came back to Australia post-1874 (but i can't find the ship). So far as i know Jane Anna married a Thomas Moore, but i only know that from the archives. The 'personal' knowledge the family has includes an 'Aunt Jane' but not her husband. John Robb talked about being in Australia, but no-one remembers him talking about his parents.
(There was at least one other Thomas Robb in Ballarat at the same time, but he tended to use his middle initial 'L')
i have DNA connecting my father (John Robb's grandson) to descendants of McNeights and Elizabeth Robb. In case you like pictures, attached is (we think) Thomas & Mary in Ballarat.
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I can fill in a few gaps for you. The Thomas Robb died 1886 is your ancestor so I'll start with him.
Thomas Robb (c1825-19 Jan.1886 Melbourne, Vic.), painter, m.(1853 Saintfield COI) Anna Cunningham; m.(1858 Magheragall) Mary Ferguson McNeight/McNight (c1837-11 Feb.1911 Belfast)
? 1852 Belfast Directory- Lisburn: Robb, Mr., painter, Railway Street
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09452/5424923.pdf (father Andrew, soldier)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09553/5463392.pdf (Castle St. Lisburn, father Andrew, soldier)
1861 Belfast Directory- Lisburn: Robb, Thomas, painter, Castle Street. (same address as 1858 marriage)
The Age [Melbourne], 19 June 1886: Casualties And Offences. The following persons were taken yesterday to the Melbourne Hospital:- Thomas Robb, aged 60, painter, residing Westwood-place, off Bourke-street east; he was found insensible at corner of Russell and Bourke streets shortly after eleven o’clock Sunday night, and died in hospital at five a.m. yesterday...
Witness [Belfast], 2 Apr.1886: ROBB- January 19, at Melbourne, Australia, of apoplexy, Mr. Thomas Robb, formerly of Lisburn. (this is a standard format for the period but obviously by that date his family in Ireland must have gotten news of his death)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1911/05406/4510275.pdf (widow of Thomas Robb a painter, informant son-in-law Thomas Moore)
Belfast Newsletter, 13 Feb.1911: ROBB- February 11, at 27, Hughenden Avenue, Belfast, Mary F. Robb, widow of the late Thomas Robb, formerly of Lisburn. Funeral private.
Children:
1. Jane Anna Robb (c1859 Co.Antrim) m. Thomas Moore.
2. John Robb (1861 Ireland).
3. Elizabeth Robb (1864 Australia).
Jane Anna Robb (c1859 Co.Antrim-aft.1941) m.(1882 Dublin) Thomas Moore (d.25 Dec. 1940), commercial traveller
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10976/8012320.pdf (witness- Lizzie Robb)
Belfast Newsletter, 5 Sept.1882: MOORE-ROBB-September _, at Adelaide Road Presbyterian Church, Dublin, by the Rev. Robert M'_ Edgar, M.A., Thomas Moore, youngest son of Andrew Moore, Belfast, to Jane Anna (Jennie), eldest daughter of Thomas Robb, late of Lisburn.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Bangor/Princetown_Road/1253176/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Clifton__Belfast_Urban_No__2/Hughenden_Avenue/134432/ (5 ch./2 liv.)
Moore Thomas of 159 Stranmillis Road Belfast retired commercial traveller died 25 December 1940 Probate Belfast 21 March [1941] to Jane Anna Moore the widow. Effects £63 15s. 11d.
I've found 4 of the 5 children-
1. John Robb Moore (1885 Belfast-aft.1901)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1885/02650/1977111.pdf
2. Thomas Andrew Moore (1887 Belfast)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1887/02574/1951603.pdf
3. Reginald Heber McNeight Moore (1890 Belfast)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/cert_amends/cert_1890/1899000a.pdf
4. Cecil Graham Moore (1889 Belfast-aft.1911)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1889/02477/1919547.pdf
Elizabeth "Lizzie" Robb (c1864 Vic., Australia) m.(1884) William Roberts
Birth: Robb Elizabeth, mother Mary Ferguson McKnight, father Thomas, 1864 Smyt. dist. Victoria.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1884/10918/5988627.pdf
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Andrew Robb
Soldier, painter, carver & gilder (not farmer as on Thomas' death registration)
1. Thomas Robb (see above)
2. William Robb m.(1848 Saintfield COI) Mary Cunningham (c1828)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1848/09351/5386329.pdf (William Robb, Saintfield, painter; father Andrew Robb, carver & gilder)
3. Robert Robb (c1833 Co.Down-1912) m. Rose Smith (see below)
4. Mary Ann Robb (c1840 Co.Down-1923) m. Robert Longwill (see below)
note: Mary F. Ferguson informant for birth of Mary Ann's daughter in 1877.
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Robert Robb (c1833 Co.Down-1912), painter, m.(1858 Kilbroney COI, Kilkeel) Rose Smith (c1835 Dublin-1908 Lisburn)
1858- painter, Rosstrevor
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1858/09551/5462902.pdf (father Andrew Robb, soldier)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Lisburn/Bachelors_Walk/1000413/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Lisburn/Bachelors_Walk/200821/
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1908/05499/4540473.pdf
Belfast Newsletter, 6 Apr.1908: ... at her residence, 51, Bachelor’s Walk, Lisburn, Rose, wife of Robert ... Interment in the Cemetery, Lisburn, this afternoon, at three o’clock. Friends please accept this intimation. ...
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05368/4497079.pdf (Robert Robb, housepainter- informant son James Robb)
Belfast Newsletter, 1 Apr.1912: MR. ROBERT ROBB, LISBURN. Much regret is felt in Lisburn at the death this old and respected townsman, which took place his residence, Bachelors’ Walk, on the ult. The deceased had been a master painter in the town for forty years, and was assisted by ...
Belfast Newsletter, 1 Apr.1912: ... The remains of our beloved father will be removed for interment at Lisburn Cemetery ... Friends will please accept thus intimation- Dublin and Limerick papers please copy. James and M.A. Robb.
Probate of the Will of Robert Robb late of Bachelor's Walk Lisburn County Antrim House Painter who died 30 March 1912 granted at Belfast to Thomas Oliver Merchant and James Sloan Clerk. Effects £132 0s. 1d.
1. James Robb (c1861-aft.1911), painter, m.(1882) Elizabeth Ann Dickey; m.(1894) Margaret Ann “Maggie” Belshaw (c1866-aft.1911)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10982/8014710.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10578/5853478.pdf (father Robert Robb, painter)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Lisburn/Westbourne_Terrace/1001913/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Lisburn/Bachelors_Walk/200828/ (6 ch./3 liv.)
a. Jane “Jennie” Robb (1883 Lisburn-aft.1911) m.(1908 Derriaghy COI) Andrew Scott
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1883/02728/2003408.pdf
1901- in household of grandfather Robert Robb
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10071/5663078.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Lisburn/Westbourne_Terrace/202435/
1. Robert Allen Scott (1909 Lisburn-aft.1911)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1909/01606/1644875.pdf
b. Robert Robb (1885 Lisburn-1886 Lisburn)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1885/02662/1981328.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06244/4787704.pdf
c. Edward Robb (1887 Lisburn-1887 Lisburn)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1887/02553/1944588.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1887/06208/4776009.pdf
d. (Margaret) Gertrude Robb (1895 Lisburn-1909 Lisburn)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1895/02198/1830906.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1909/05464/4529252.pdf
e. Maud Victoria/Victoria Maud Robb (1897 Lisburn-aft.1911)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1897/02121/1806568.pdf (Victoria Maud)
f. Robert James Robb (1899 Lisburn-aft.1911)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1899/02055/1786279.pdf
g. (Anna Letitia) Adelaide Robb (1900 Lisburn-1902 Lisburn)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1900/01989/1765674.pdf (Anna Letitia Adelaide)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1902/05706/4609568.pdf
h. William Richard Belshaw Robb (1903 Lisburn-aft.1911)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1903/01853/1722372.pdf
i. Child (d.bef.1911)
2. Mary Ann Robb (c1861 Co.Down-aft.1912).
3. Jane Robb (1868 Lisburn-1883 Lisburn)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1868/03433/2260200.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1883/06379/4830995.pdf
4. Elizabeth “Lizzie” Robb (1872 Lisburn-1892 Lisburn)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1872/03252/2192012.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06050/4724053.pdf
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Mary Ann Robb (c1840 Co.Down-1923 Belfast) m.(1859 Alfred St. Presbyterian Church, Belfast) Robert Longwill (c1831-1878)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1859/09564/5467841.pdf (father Andrew, painter or printer?)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020504/7195435.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Falls_Ward/Cupar_Street/979797/
Northern Whig [Belfast], 27 Aug.1923: LONGWILL0 August 25, at her residence, 43, Brussels Street, Mary Ann, widow of the late Robert Longwill, formerly cashier of Glenmore Bleach Works, Lambeg. Her remains will be removed from the above address for interment ...
1. Daughter (1864)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1864/03599/2327298.pdf
2. Flora Kelly Longwill (1866) m.(1889 Lisburn) Joseph McClean
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1866/03512/2291638.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10722/5909228.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Derryaghey/Magheralane/997143/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Derryaghy/Magheralave/197421/ (2 ch./1 liv.)
a. Joseph Moore McClean (c1896-aft.1901)
3. Robert Longwill (1868-1898) m. Sara(h) Jane Gillespie
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1868/03433/2260206.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05833/4651954.pdf
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Shankhill/Matchet_Street/949139/
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Shankill/Matchett_Street/152136/
a. Agnes Lillian Longwill (c1892 Lisburn-aft.1911)
b. Robert Rollo Gillespie Longwill (c1893 Belfast-aft.1911)
4. Mary Hamilton Longwill (1870) m.(1904 St. Anne’s COI, Belfast) William Edward Mitchell (c1874)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1870/03327/2219628.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10211/5717078.pdf
5. Thomas Henry Longwill (1873-1921)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1873/03201/2173975.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1921/05098/4400634.pdf
6. Jane Anna Elizabeth Robb (1875 Lambeg-aft.1901) m.(1894) Thomas Campbell (c1874-bef.1901), plumber; m.(1906 Trinity COI, Belfast) Robert Fleming
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1875/03094/2134553.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1894/10560/5846882.pdf (witnesses Joseph & Flora McClean)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10123/5683039.pdf
a. William John Campbell (c1896 Belfast-aft.1921)
b. Thomas Henry Campbell (c1898 Belfast-aft.1901)
c. Jane Anna Fleming (c1908)
d. Maud Fleming (c1910)
e. Marianne Longwill Fleming (c1912)
7. Frances Charlotte Longwell (1877) m.(1907 Trinity COI, Belfast) Robert Barnett
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1877/02991/2096191.pdf (informant is a Mary F. Robb of Chapel Hill, Lisburn)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1907/10087/5669240.pdf (sister Jane and Jane’s husband Robert Fleming witnesses)
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Woodvale/Sugarfield_Street/179923/
a. Florence Madeline “Florrie” Steel (1898-aft.1911)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1898/02076/1792485.pdf (Florence Madeline, daughter of James Steel & Florence Charlotte Longwell)
1901- in household of grandmother Mary Longwill
1911- stepdaughter in household of Robert Barnett
b. Isabella “Bella” Barnett (c1908-aft.1911)
c. Robert Andrew Barnett (c1911)
d. Jane Anna Elizabeth Barnett (1916 Belfast)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1916/01354/1558774.pdf
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Goodness Aghadowey you've excelled yourself and that is saying something as I've seen some amazing finds and evidence from you.
And thank you as while you've found them for Tejjy there may be others with Robb & families forebears who might find this research in the future.
Shanreagh ;D
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According to the Valuation Revision Books (https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/searching-valuation-revision-books) Thomas Robb is listed at property number 58 Chapel Hill in Lisburn from 1874-1879. The street number was 17 and it consisted of a house, yard & small garden. It looks like the property is no longer there but I think it was around the entrance to the Ford dealership.
One unresolved bit is this-
Mary Ann Robb (c1840 Co.Down-1923 Belfast) m.(1859 Alfred St. Presbyterian Church, Belfast) Robert Longwill (c1831-1878)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1859/09564/5467841.pdf (father Andrew, painter or printer?)
I still think it could read painter if you look at other 'a's on the page but if is printer then I think it could have been a clerical error when copying into that register.
I have to confess that I did not try to look for Thomas Robb's son John but since he turns out to be your ancestor then you likely have far more information than I would have found on him.
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That is *absolutely* *amazing*. Thank you very much indeed. That is a tour de force.
The Smythesdale historical society has the police desk book for the 1860's and Thomas makes several appearances in it for d&d, on one occasion accompanied by Mary.
i'm interested in his father's career. i will have to look at the army records. Thanks again
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Found out a bit more this evening as I needed a good distraction :)
Jane Ann Robb & husband Thomas Moore-
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6649.12888 (Thomas)
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6781.1981 (Jane)
Son Thomas Andrew Moore-
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6535.3337
Son Reginald Heber McNeight Moore-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06066/4729604.pdf
https://online.belfastcity.gov.uk/find-burial-records/BurialRecordDetails.aspx?RecordID=6565.2530
Note: Reginald Heber was a famous Anglican clergyman.
Belfast Newsletter, 1 Apr.1912: Mr. Robert Robb, Lisburn ... by his son, Mr. James Robb. In all his dealings with the public he was courteous and upright, and was held in universal esteem, was an old member of the Cathedral congregation, and was seldom absent from the Sunday services. Fond of music, he assisted the choir ...
James Robb (c1861-1924/1934), painter, only son, m.(1882) Elizabeth Ann Dickey (d.1890 Lisburn); m.(1894) Margaret Ann “Maggie” Belshaw (c1866-8 Mar.1938)
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10982/8014710.pdf
Belfast Telegraph, 9 Nov.1882: ROBB—DICKEY— Noyember 8, at Seymour Street Wesleyan Church, Lisburn, by the Rev. John Moore, James Robb, only son of Robert Robb, to Lizzie, only daughter Edward Dickey, both of Lisburn.
Belfast Newsletter, 3 June 1890: ROBB- June 2, at her father’s residence, 20, Bridge Street, Lisburn, Elizabeth Ann (Lizzie), the beloved wife of James Robb, and only daughter of Edward Dickey. Interment in _ Cemetery ...
Lisburn Standard, 13 July 1912: ... Bachelor’s Walk, Lisburn. ... will be executed by First-class Tradesmen, under my personal supervision. Chares Moderate. Yours faithfully, James Robb, Robert Robb & Son, Lisburn.
Belfast Newsletter, 9 Mar.1938: ROBB- March 8, 1938, at the Hospital, Purdysburn Road, Margaret Ann Robb. Funeral from her late residence, 83, Broadway Parade, to-morrow (Thursday), at 2-30 p.m., to ...
Daughter Jane-
Belfast Newsletter, 20 Oct.1908: ... Derriaghy Parish Church, the Rev. Canon Pounden, Andrew, eldest son of the late Andrew Scott, Lisburn, to Jennie, eldest daughter of James Robb, Bachelor’s Walk, Lisburn.
Daughter Victoria Maud-
Belfast Telegraph, 17 Feb.1934: ROBB- February 16, 1934, Victoria Maud, dearly-loved daughter of Margaret and the late James Robb. Funeral from 16 Vernon Street, to Lisburn Cemetery, to-morrow (Sunday) ... Deeply regretted by her sorrowing Mother and Brother.
Son Robert James Robb-
Northern Whig [Belfast], 20 Mar.1924: ROBB- March 18, 1924, at his parents’ residence, 31, Bachelor’s Walk, Lisburn, Robert James, eldest son of James and Margaret Robb. Funeral from above address for interment in Lisburn Cemetery.
Mary Ann Robb (c1861 Co.Down-4 Nov.1931 Lisburn) m.(1917 St. Thomas’ COI, Belfast) Samuel Bruce
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09742/5535034.pdf
Belfast Telegraph, 5 Nov.1931: BRUCE- November 4, 1931, at her residence, 51 Bachelor’s Walk, Lisburn, Mary A., eldest daughter of the late Robert Robb. The remains of my beloved aunt will be removed from the above address, on to-morrow (Friday) ...
Bruce Mary Ann of 51 Bachelor's Walk Lisburn county Antrim died 4 November 1931 Administration Belfast 24 November to Samuel Bruce spinning master the husband. Effects £285 5s. 1d. Effects £285 5s 1d
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Both Thomas Robb and sister Mary Ann Longwill named daughters Jane Anna/Jane Anna Elizabeth (and brother Robert had a daughter Jane) so I wondered if Andrew's wife was Jane Anna or at least Jane. I searched for a death without any luck. Possibly both Andrew and wife died before 1864.
From the newspaper snippets the Robbs seem to have ben Church of Ireland, as I suspected.
Good news is that the church records are extensive- C.I. Lisburn (Christ Church Cathedral)
Baptisms, 1637, 1639-41, 1643-46, 1655-1933
Marriages, 1639-41, 1643-46 and 1664-1967
Burials, 1639-41 and 1661-1929; burials in Lisburn Cathedral churchyard, 1670-1951
However, they are available to view at PRONI, Belfast.
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I'm not sure I date to post another question ever again! This is fantastic, thanks very much. I don't want to think how many hours that would have taken me. Your newspaper searching skills in particular are awe-inspiring; looking at your results I can see why my searches didn't turn up the same results - but you must have waded through a ton of results to cull these relevant ones.
The family will be pleased, I think.
I don't know how invested you get in the stories you research; did you find Thomas Robb's theft of his brother-im-law's cashbox just prior to his departure for Australia? (Belfast Morning News, 26 Oct 186, bankruptcy column) He was a complicated man, it seems.
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Glad the information is of interest. Quite an interesting family to research.
The newspaper searches take time and patience. Just keep repeating searches by changing search terms, dates, etc.
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aghadowey - can i please ask you a couple of things: 1.) What is the PRONI reference for the 1874-1879 Valuation Book entry you mention, because I can't find it. And the other question is, if the Robbs turn out to be Presbyterian, does that mean checking with each church individually for extant registers, or will they be in the PRONI as well?
Cheers
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1.) What is the PRONI reference for the 1874-1879 Valuation Book entry you mention, because I can't find it.
According to the Valuation Revision Books (https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/services/searching-valuation-revision-books) Thomas Robb is listed at property number 58 Chapel Hill in Lisburn from 1874-1879. The street number was 17 and it consisted of a house, yard & small garden. It looks like the property is no longer there but I think it was around the entrance to the Ford dealership.
That link works for me. If you scroll down a wee bit to the green button "Search Valuation Revision Books" on the page that comes up put in 'chapel hill' and select 'Antrim' as County.
Next page brings up list of various revision books. Select VAL/12B/8/9c and VAL/12B/9G to see years in question.
And the other question is, if the Robbs turn out to be Presbyterian, does that mean checking with each church individually for extant registers, or will they be in the PRONI as well?
I think that the Robbs were Church of Ireland as I mentioned before but since marriages usually take place in the bride's church there might be records in Presbyterian churches. There are also other Protestant denominations. See PRONI's Guide to Church records for a list of the register they have on microfilm.
https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records
Not all church records survive and of those that do not all are on microfilm at PRONI or online.
If you do find a marriage record in the civil registrations it's easy to tell where it took place. That will be the same record the church has.
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thanks again - i'll start by assuming they are COI, but i thought i'd plan ahead in case not :)