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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: KitCarson on Sunday 20 April 25 09:55 BST (UK)

Title: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 20 April 25 09:55 BST (UK)
Once again I'm looking for some help with this Anderson family please.  I am more than happy to purchase records, if any are found.

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tra/

As mentioned in #5 of this thread, the eldest child of William and Mary was Jessie born around 1880-1946.  The query is really about who has signed their name and was present at her death. 

Added:  I've just noticed that Jessie is recorded at her death as aged 56 when she should in fact be 66.

I have Jessie in the 1881, 1891 & 1911 census.  Can’t find her in the 1901 or the 1921 in Scotland or England.

On 1st June 1910 at 21 Lothian Road, Edinburgh she married Wright Sugden 1882-1924.  He was born Salford, Manchester but appears to have then moved to London as a child.  In the 1911c, he is lodging or renting with a family called Reynolds in West Hampstead and shown as married.  Jessie is at her parent’s home at 49 Falcon Gardens, Morningside, Edinburgh and shown as married under 1 year.

There is a WW1 Medal Card for Wright on Ancestry, but I can’t find any other records.  Wright died on 23rd January 1924 at the Hospital of St John & St Elizabeth in London aged 41.  CoD 1. Lobar pneumonia 7 days 2. Heart Failure 2 days.  Usual address is 22 Achilles Rd, West Hampstead.  Present at the death is a G Anderson of 53 Mill Lane, West Hampstead.  I have no idea if that was a medical person or possibly one of Jessie’s side.

The 1935 Evaluation Roll has Jessie as a Grocer with an address of 85 Albert Street, Leith, Edinburgh.

She died 2nd April 1946 at 53 Durham Square, Portobello.  Present was a Mr Young, Nephew of the same address.

Could this be a child of sister Margaret and her husband 'John Walter Young' whom you found out so much about in the thread.  I can’t find a likely birth in Scotland/England/Ontario but maybe someone else will have better luck.

Margaret may have been looking after a child in Edinburgh whilst her husband was serving in WW1 and I noted in the Army paperwork that he sent money to his Father in Law William Anderson.  Was that to support a wife and child?

There is always the possibility that the nephew was from Jessie’s husband’s side I suppose.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: scotmum on Monday 21 April 25 17:03 BST (UK)
Death notice in newspaper only mentions two sisters, Mary and Jean, also of 53 Durham Square, Portobello.

Was there anyhing of note in the Register of Corrected Entries?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: scotmum on Monday 21 April 25 17:14 BST (UK)
The Scotsman of 28/1/1924 has an entry for the death of Wright Sugden at a nursing home in London. It notes he was the son-in-law of a William Anderson, 49 Falcon Gardens, Edinburgh.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 21 April 25 21:47 BST (UK)
Are Electoral Registers available for that address for 1946
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Monday 21 April 25 22:33 BST (UK)
Death notice in newspaper only mentions two sisters, Mary and Jean, also of 53 Durham Square, Portobello.

Was there anyhing of note in the Register of Corrected Entries?
I have no idea how to access that but it might be something to do with the initial issue I had when ordering the image on the website.  It came up with a completely different page and I then had to submit a request for the correct one.  How do I go about getting that?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Monday 21 April 25 22:34 BST (UK)
Are Electoral Registers available for that address for 1946
As far as the website goes, there is only access to 1940 and Jessie wasn't on that only the 1935.

Edited:  I only accessed the Valuation Rolls.  Not sure how to look at the Electoral Registers.  Is that also via ScotlandsPeople, or another source.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Monday 21 April 25 22:38 BST (UK)
The Scotsman of 28/1/1924 has an entry for the death of Wright Sugden at a nursing home in London. It notes he was the son-in-law of a William Anderson, 49 Falcon Gardens, Edinburgh.
I was given that snippet of info from a kind person who was researching the family because they thought the Mother, Mary Scott (1854-1920) was their kin.  That wasn't the case but they passed on the research they had.  Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Monday 21 April 25 23:05 BST (UK)
I'm looking to get Jessie's Will but will have to book a slot at Register House, Princes St/Waterloo Place which is only 5 minutes from my work.  Can I access the Register of Corrected Entries at the same time I wonder?

Thank you so much for the information on Mary and Jean.  So, they were at the same address in 1946.

Mary died 15 May 1955 at Leith Hospital.  Jean was married to James Kirk Wilkie, who was the informant on Mary's death.  He may have died in Cuckfield, Sussex in 1968.  I don't yet have a death for Jean.  It's a work in progress.

The property (on google street map) doesn't look that big to accommodate all of those people in 1946 to be honest.  Jessie, Jean and husband James, Mary and this 'Mr Young'?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 21 April 25 23:13 BST (UK)
I have been thinking Mr Young might be J. F. A. Young

So then I thought the F might be Forsyth (as per the grandfather) and A might be for Anderson.
However it hasn’t helped.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Monday 21 April 25 23:27 BST (UK)
I too have been considering that Mr Young has 3 initials.  The second one requires him to go beyond the confines of the line where a letter would naturally sit, but to loop beneath (as in the Y and g).  I was thinking more F. J. A?  Appreciate your thoughts.  Its definitely YOUNG though.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: David Nicoll on Monday 21 April 25 23:44 BST (UK)
Hi, is it just an x, as in sign here? It is in a different gand to the rest of the document.
A J A  Young dies in Musselburgh a few years later.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Wednesday 23 April 25 22:35 BST (UK)
Hello David,

Sorry for the delayed response.

AJA Young?  I shall look on SP.  Can you provide a year that you think he is found?

Thanks for your thoughts and happy to purchase.  I'll go and take a look too.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 24 April 25 08:43 BST (UK)
Are Electoral Registers available for that address for 1946
As far as the website goes, there is only access to 1940 and Jessie wasn't on that only the 1935.

Edited:  I only accessed the Valuation Rolls.  Not sure how to look at the Electoral Registers.  Is that also via ScotlandsPeople, or another source.

Edinburgh Electoral registers. Ancestry. Up to 1966.
Search by name only it seems.
No other details so can't be certain it's her.
There's Ann E Young at 48.

Name Jessie Sugden
Residence Date1945
Street Address Joppa Road 48a
Residence Place Edinburgh, Scotland
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 24 April 25 09:07 BST (UK)

Just a bit of interest.  Brave man.
Thursday,  Nov. 30, 1916
Publication: Southern Reporter (Selkirk, Scotland)Issue: 2957

Awarded Military Medal .Mechanical Staff-Sergeant ~ Wright Sugden, M.T., A.S. C., has been awarded the Military Medal for " conspicuous gallantry in bringing up ammunition to the firing line  at the Battle of Loos." The sergeant is the son in-law of the well-known Edinburgh Souter, Mr William Anderson, architect, 49 Falcon Gardens, Edinburgh. Previous to the war he resided in London, and at one time was manager of a motor engineering firm in Edinburgh.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 24 April 25 09:25 BST (UK)
This may help 🤔

Register of Voters For the City of Edinburgh and the Burgh of Leith
1946
43 Durham Terrace Portobello 
Stanley J A Young.
Doreen M St G. Young ?
Previous entry has her as Doreen.

Also linked Deceased on Line
Name Stanley James Arnot Young
Register TypeCremation
Death Date19 Oct 1953
Burial or Cremation Date 21 Oct 1953 Burial or Cremation Place Edinburgh, Scotland



Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 24 April 25 09:59 BST (UK)
Scotlands People.

Young STANLEY JAMES A

Age at death 48

Mother's Maiden Name

Year 1953

Ref

685 / 3 / 489

RD Name

Canongate and Portobello


Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 24 April 25 10:04 BST (UK)
Birth Scotlands People.

 Young STANLEY JAMES A

Mother's Maiden Name
BRYCE

Year
1905

Ref
694 / 36
RD Name
Mid Calder

Good luck.


Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Thursday 24 April 25 10:08 BST (UK)
Couldn't resist it.
Marriage Scotlands People
Young STANLEY JAMES A

Spouse Surname
BOLAN

Spouse Forename
DOREEN MAY GEOR

Year
1928

Ref
685 / 6 / 1

RD Name
Newington


Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: David Nicoll on Thursday 24 April 25 18:17 BST (UK)
Apologies, I can’t now find him!
And of course it should have read that the signature is in another hand from the rest of the document!
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Thursday 24 April 25 20:59 BST (UK)
James Kirk Wilkie of 53 Durham Street Portobello, married Jane Dobson Anderson in 1917. She died in 1955 and he remarried that same year to Daisie Kate Wright.

DEATHS
WILKIE. - At Edinburgh, suddenly, on 9th February 1955, JEAN DOBSON ANDERSON, wife of JAMES KIRK WILKIE. 53 Durham Square, Portobello, and beloved mother of Maedie and Marjorie. Funeral service at...

Published: Thursday 10 February 1955
Newspaper: The Scotsman
County: Midlothian, Scotland



MARRIAGES
... WILKIE-WRIGHT.- At the Parish Church of St Andrew, Edinburgh, on 20th Septem. 1955 hf: the Rev. E. W. Wallis, B.D. .D.. JAMES KIRK WILKIE. 53 Durham Square, Portobello, Midlothian, to DAISIE
KATE WRIGHT...

Published: Wednesday 21 September 1955
Newspaper: The Scotsman
County: Midlothian, Scotland



William Forsyth Anderson and Mary Scott had at least these children: Jessie (1880), Margaret (1882), Mary Scott (1885), Jane (1886), Ella (1888), George Rutherford (1895). Still trying to find a birth record for Jean (probably born c. 1897). All births registered in Galashiels, Selkirkshire except for George (Newington).


Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Thursday 24 April 25 21:21 BST (UK)
What a load of responses since I could last log in.  Thank you all so much.

Starting with the most recent. PatLac Jane/Jean was born 27 Sept 1886 at 72 Douglas Place, GALASHIELS Selkirkshire Scotland.

All the info about James marrying Daisie is new and very much appreciated and I didn't have Jane/Jean death.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Thursday 24 April 25 21:25 BST (UK)
David, it was so nice of you to chip in with your thoughts.  Please carry on and I hope you can find some other missing clues.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Thursday 24 April 25 21:32 BST (UK)
Wilcoxon, again, thanks for all of that info.  It'll take me a while to put it all into context and find out who Stanley was.  You've certainly given me lots to work on and  I'll need to digest it all and buy certificates and give it all some consideration this weekend.

I don't know how you all manage to find these snippets but I wish I was as good.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Thursday 24 April 25 22:38 BST (UK)
What a load of responses since I could last log in.  Thank you all so much.

Starting with the most recent. PatLac Jane/Jean was born 27 Sept 1886 at 72 Douglas Place, GALASHIELS Selkirkshire Scotland.

All the info about James marrying Daisie is new and very much appreciated and I didn't have Jane/Jean death.

Kit

Hi Kit,

First I thought that Jean/Jane was the same person, but when I looked at James Kirk Wilkie's DOB (1895) I thought Jean Dobson could be another daughter born later on, after George. Is this the wrong James Kirk Wilkie or was she 9 years older than him?

WILKIE
JEAN DOBSON
60
F
1955
685 / 5 / 220
George Square


Ah... I found her in the 1891 Census wrongly transcribed as John Dobson (daughter)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSFH-444?lang=en
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Friday 25 April 25 17:59 BST (UK)
Apologies for not reading your previous thread!

I was wondering if this could mean that Margaret and John Walter Young had a child...


"Dependent: Wm Anderson (F in L) Guardian"
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: scotmum on Friday 25 April 25 18:15 BST (UK)
Death notice in the Scotsman recorded Stanley's parents as the late Mr & Mrs J. W. D. Young, 95 Harrison Road, Edinburgh. He was apparently a laundry proprietor (likely Braid Laundry). There was a John W. D. Young at 95 Harrison Road in 1927. A Mrs Elizabeth Young of 95 Harrison Road died in 1950. So, marriage:

YOUNG
JOHN WILLIAM DU(...)

BRYCE
ELIZABETH

1899
698 / A / 12
Ratho

giving two possible birth entries (perhaps a later child named after an infant death):

YOUNG
JOHN WILLIAM DU

DUNLOP

M
1874
698 / A / 12
Ratho


YOUNG
JOHN WILLIAM DU

DUNLOP

M
1871
698 / A / 16
Ratho

Are this Young group red herrings, perhaps?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Friday 25 April 25 18:27 BST (UK)
I wonder if John Walter Young (aka Walter John Jeanes) could have remarried after Margaret's death in 1917? If he did and had children, one of them would be a candidate for Jessie's nephew. The problem is where did he go after he returned from Canada? I see in his military files that the intended place (after discharge) was 49 Falcon Gardens, Edinburgh. Is there any evidence of him in Scotland after his discharge? I know he wouldn't be her true nephew, but..


I don't have access to Ancestry, have you checked a James Anderson Young, born in Ontario in the  "Ontario, Canada Births, 1832-1917 Birth, baptism & christening" collection? (narrowing down the DOB it seems he was born in 1915)

Maybe he is the reason why Margaret returned to Scotland and why her father was his guardian.

Possible death

YOUNG
JAMES ANDERSON
87
ANDERSON
M
2003
801 / 118
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Friday 25 April 25 19:25 BST (UK)
NameJames Anderson Young
GenderMaleBirth  Date10 Nov 1915
Birth Place Dundas, Ontario, Canada
Legitimacy Y
FatherJohn Young
MotherMargaret Anderson

John Young was a soldier 33 Battery CFA Militia Kingston


Incoming passenger lists.

NameJames Anderson Young
Arrival Age44 Birth Date10 Nov 1915 Port of Departure Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date 9 Sep 1960 Port of Arrival Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage Durban; East London; Port Elizabeth; Cape Town and Las Palmas Ship NameCarnarvon CastleShipping Line Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd Official Number1726/01
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Friday 25 April 25 19:30 BST (UK)
Scotland Death Index

NameMr James Anderson Young
GenderMale Age 87
Birth Date1916
Last ResidencePeebles, Peeblesshire, Scotland Postal Code DistrictEh45
Death Date10 Apr 2003
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Friday 25 April 25 20:35 BST (UK)
Great info, wilcoxon!

I have found his death record on FS date of death 4 Oct 2003?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 13:11 BST (UK)
What a load of responses since I could last log in.  Thank you all so much.

Starting with the most recent. PatLac Jane/Jean was born 27 Sept 1886 at 72 Douglas Place, GALASHIELS Selkirkshire Scotland.

All the info about James marrying Daisie is new and very much appreciated and I didn't have Jane/Jean death.

Trying to attach the marriage cert but the file is too large.  I'll keep trying to make it smaller.

Kit

Hi Kit,

First I thought that Jean/Jane was the same person, but when I looked at James Kirk Wilkie's DOB (1895) I thought Jean Dobson could be another daughter born later on, after George. Is this the wrong James Kirk Wilkie or was she 9 years older than him?

WILKIE
JEAN DOBSON
60
F
1955
685 / 5 / 220
George Square


Ah... I found her in the 1891 Census wrongly transcribed as John Dobson (daughter)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KSFH-444?lang=en
1901 census at 354 Morningside Rd, Edinburgh has the famil:
William Anderson 47
Mary Anderson   46
Margaret Anderson18
Mary Anderson   16
Jane Anderson   14
Ella Anderson   12
George Anderson 6

1911 Jane is 24 and still with the same family but now at 49 Falcon Gardens.

Here is the marriage record.  Correct parents but she is 23!  He is 22.  She should be 29?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 13:20 BST (UK)
I'm trying to make the image of their marriage smaller but it still won't post.

Details:
22nd August 1917
49 Falcon Gardens, Edinburgh

J Kirk Wilkie aged 22 - on Active Service
2nd Lt Royal Field Artillery
Bachelor
Parents George Wilkie- Brewers Manager
Lydia Evans Wilkie ms Kirk?

Jean D(R)obson Anderson aged 23
Single
Parents William Anderson - Architect Surveyor
Mary Anderson ms Scott

Witness Mary Scott Anderson
other witness name unreadable

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 13:36 BST (UK)

William Forsyth Anderson and Mary Scott had at least these children: Jessie (1880), Margaret (1882), Mary Scott (1885), Jane (1886), Ella (1888), George Rutherford (1895). Still trying to find a birth record for Jean (probably born c. 1897). All births registered in Galashiels, Selkirkshire except for George (Newington).
[/quote]
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 13:39 BST (UK)
resorted to taking photos of the images.  Will try and post the birth cert:



Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 13:47 BST (UK)
Need to go and sit in a darkened room now.  I'm not very technical at the best of times.

Hopefully 1921 census showing Jean/Jane her sister Mary and father Wm.  His age is correct but both Jean and Mary have shaved years off theirs.  Wonder who provided the information?

Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 13:49 BST (UK)
Probably because she was older than her husband?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 14:01 BST (UK)
Death notice in the Scotsman recorded Stanley's parents as the late Mr & Mrs J. W. D. Young, 95 Harrison Road, Edinburgh. He was apparently a laundry proprietor (likely Braid Laundry). There was a John W. D. Young at 95 Harrison Road in 1927. A Mrs Elizabeth Young of 95 Harrison Road died in 1950. So, marriage:

YOUNG
JOHN WILLIAM DU(...)

BRYCE
ELIZABETH

1899
698 / A / 12
Ratho

giving two possible birth entries (perhaps a later child named after an infant death):

YOUNG
JOHN WILLIAM DU

DUNLOP

M
1874
698 / A / 12
Ratho


YOUNG
JOHN WILLIAM DU

DUNLOP

M
1871
698 / A / 16
Ratho

Are this Young group red herrings, perhaps?

Death at 43 Durham Terrace
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 14:06 BST (UK)
NameJames Anderson Young
GenderMaleBirth  Date10 Nov 1915
Birth Place Dundas, Ontario, Canada
Legitimacy Y
FatherJohn Young
MotherMargaret Anderson

John Young was a soldier 33 Battery CFA Militia Kingston


Incoming passenger lists.

NameJames Anderson Young
Arrival Age44 Birth Date10 Nov 1915 Port of Departure Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date 9 Sep 1960 Port of Arrival Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage Durban; East London; Port Elizabeth; Cape Town and Las Palmas Ship NameCarnarvon CastleShipping Line Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd Official Number1726/01

Great find! Not sure how to go about getting certificates etc but will give it some thought.

As the marriage only took place on 30 Sept 1915 she must have been heavily pregnant by the birth on 10 November.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 14:09 BST (UK)
Scotland Death Index

NameMr James Anderson Young
GenderMale Age 87
Birth Date1916
Last ResidencePeebles, Peeblesshire, Scotland Postal Code DistrictEh45
Death Date10 Apr 2003

Thanks for flagging this.  Unfortunately there are plenty of 'Anderson' and 'Young' in the borders but worth checking out when I can get to the ScotlandPeople Centre.  I'll need to make a list!  ;D
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 14:11 BST (UK)
Apologies for not reading your previous thread!

I was wondering if this could mean that Margaret and John Walter Young had a child...


"Dependent: Wm Anderson (F in L) Guardian"
Excited by that and wonder if it is the James Young that Wilcoxon found
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 14:17 BST (UK)
I wonder if John Walter Young (aka Walter John Jeanes) could have remarried after Margaret's death in 1917? If he did and had children, one of them would be a candidate for Jessie's nephew. The problem is where did he go after he returned from Canada? I see in his military files that the intended place (after discharge) was 49 Falcon Gardens, Edinburgh. Is there any evidence of him in Scotland after his discharge? I know he wouldn't be her true nephew, but..


I don't have access to Ancestry, have you checked a James Anderson Young, born in Ontario in the  "Ontario, Canada Births, 1832-1917 Birth, baptism & christening" collection? (narrowing down the DOB it seems he was born in 1915)

Maybe he is the reason why Margaret returned to Scotland and why her father was his guardian.

Possible death

YOUNG
JAMES ANDERSON
87
ANDERSON
M
2003
801 / 118

I suppose I've found him first  ;D but wilcoxon found his details. I'm in Brazil, English is not my native language and I don't have access to most UK records.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 14:29 BST (UK)
Sorry if I missed that PatLac.  So much information to work through.  I should be more organised  :-[

I'm envious of you all who can work through information methodically.  However, please keep these thoughts/finds coming  :)
Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 14:31 BST (UK)
Haha no worries, I'm more obsessed than methodical  :o
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 14:52 BST (UK)
From Ancestry - Births County of Dundas/Division Mountain 1915 Birth registration for James Anderson Young so they definitely had a child soon after marriage.

What great people you all are  ;D



Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 14:56 BST (UK)
So... he is Jessie Sudgen's nephew who was the informant of her death. How exciting  :D

Now I want to know what happened to John Walter Young  ;D
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 15:04 BST (UK)
I don't want to get too excited but ...... YES?  However, finding him from 1915 onward will be a task.  I'll need all the help I can get so keep delving into the records for me.  At least we appear to have his movements in 1960 (although that was after Jessie had died)

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 15:09 BST (UK)
I'm sure he is her nephew and informant of her death, but I'll keep looking for him and his father. Do you think John Walter has remarried?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 15:45 BST (UK)
Unfortunately, I haven't a clue.  He could be anywhere after his discharge.  Did he come for James or did he let the Anderson side look after him.  He wasn't with them at 49 Falcon Gardens in the 1921c.

I wonder if he eventually ended up with Aunt Ella in South Africa.  She married Harold Damant Atherstone in Feb 1915 Edinburgh (I must request another copy of the certificate as its pretty awful) and died 1942 Dunlop House, Port Alfred, Eastern Cape, South Africa.

I've now booked a seat at the ScotlandPeople Centre for mid May.  That should give me time to get all of my ducks in a row.  Will also need to enquire about Wills and get that sorted at the same time.  I'd like to find William Anderson's from 1924 and Jessie Sugden, maybe others also.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 26 April 25 16:57 BST (UK)
NameJames Anderson Young
GenderMaleBirth  Date10 Nov 1915
Birth Place Dundas, Ontario, Canada
Legitimacy Y
FatherJohn Young
MotherMargaret Anderson

John Young was a soldier 33 Battery CFA Militia Kingston


Incoming passenger lists.

NameJames Anderson Young
Arrival Age44 Birth Date10 Nov 1915 Port of Departure Durban, South Africa
Arrival Date 9 Sep 1960 Port of Arrival Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage Durban; East London; Port Elizabeth; Cape Town and Las Palmas Ship NameCarnarvon CastleShipping Line Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company Ltd Official Number1726/01

Great find! Not sure how to go about getting certificates etc but will give it some thought.

As the marriage only took place on 30 Sept 1915 she must have been heavily pregnant by the birth on 10 November.

John Young 31 Residence 250 Queens Street Ottawa
occupation Militia . Anglican
Birth Date   abt 1884
Birth Place   Wells Somerset England
Father   John Young
Mother   Carrie Hancock
Marriage Date   30 Sep 1915
Marriage Place   Carleton, Ontario, Canada

Spouse   Margaret Anderson Residence Inkerman Dundas
Born Edinburgh Presbyterian
Father William Anderson mother Mary Scott
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 17:43 BST (UK)
Unfortunately, I haven't a clue.  He could be anywhere after his discharge.  Did he come for James or did he let the Anderson side look after him.  He wasn't with them at 49 Falcon Gardens in the 1921c.

I wonder if he eventually ended up with Aunt Ella in South Africa.  She married Harold Damant Atherstone in Feb 1915 Edinburgh (I must request another copy of the certificate as its pretty awful) and died 1942 Dunlop House, Port Alfred, Eastern Cape, South Africa.

I've now booked a seat at the ScotlandPeople Centre for mid May.  That should give me time to get all of my ducks in a row.  Will also need to enquire about Wills and get that sorted at the same time.  I'd like to find William Anderson's from 1924 and Jessie Sugden, maybe others also.

Kit

Where have Ella's second and third forenames come from? Burn Brown? I couldn't see it properly in the BNA website.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 17:46 BST (UK)
Not the Anderson side as far as my research has gone.  I can't identify which Mary Scott the mother is (and I'm not alone in that) so there may be a connection on the Scott side.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 18:19 BST (UK)
If this is Mary's DOD it says her mother's maiden name was ... Scott  ::)

ANDERSON
MARY
66
SCOTT
F
1920
685 / 7 / 489
Morningside



Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 18:28 BST (UK)
Yes, parents were Walter Scott and Jessie Scott ms Scott.  From William and Mary's marriage cert.  All very confusing.

Kit

Added: I probably have Walter and Jessie in the 1851c with children:
Kelso Road, Kings Cross, Selkirk
Walter 35 Labourer from Yarrow
Jessie 34 Lilliesleaf, Roxburgh
Thomas 10 Selkirk
Margaret 8 Selkirk
Walter 5 Selkirk
Jane 2 Selkirk

Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 18:41 BST (UK)
Yes, parents were Walter Scott and Jessie Scott ms Scott.  From William and Mary's marriage cert.  All very confusing.

Kit

Oh, I didn't know that, thank you. Do you know if the newspaper article was right? That both William and Mary were from Selkirkshire?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 18:54 BST (UK)
Just in case you missed it, I added a little to my previous post about Walter and Jessie.

As I can't be sure of a birth for Mary Scott abt 1854, census say Selkirk.  William Forsyth Anderson was born to George and Margaret Rutherford 1 Feb 1854 before Statutory Registration.  He was baptised at the same time as his elder brother James (b1851).  George was a Mason of Dunsdalehaugh, Selkirk.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 19:36 BST (UK)
Thank you, this is going to be very helpful.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Saturday 26 April 25 19:52 BST (UK)
So... he is Jessie Sudgen's nephew who was the informant of her death. How exciting  :D

Now I want to know what happened to John Walter Young  ;D

I'm a little confused now,  is John Walter Young the same person as John Young who married Margaret Anderson in Canada and the father of James Anderson Young.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 20:09 BST (UK)
Unless you think differently.  I posted an image at #43 (which now says is too big to upload!) James Anderson Young was born at Inkerman, Dundas to parents John Young and Margaret Anderson.

The military records show that John Young was sending money back to William Anderson at 49 Falcon Gardens where his wife Margaret had been living and passed away in 1919.  Was that for the upkeep of a child?

Any differing views would be welcome as there are only snippets of info.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 20:21 BST (UK)
So... he is Jessie Sudgen's nephew who was the informant of her death. How exciting  :D

Now I want to know what happened to John Walter Young  ;D

I'm a little confused now,  is John Walter Young the same person as John Young who married Margaret Anderson in Canada and the father of James Anderson Young.

Yes  ;D and to add insult to injury his real name was Walter John Jeanes  ;D
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 20:24 BST (UK)
Unless you think differently.  I posted an image at #43 (which now says is too big to upload!) James Anderson Young was born at Inkerman, Dundas to parents John Young and Margaret Anderson.

The military records show that John Young was sending money back to William Anderson at 49 Falcon Gardens where his wife Margaret had been living and passed away in 1919.  Was that for the upkeep of a child?

Any differing views would be welcome as there are only snippets of info.

Kit

I think this is absolutely correct. That's why they wrote the word Guardian after 'Dependent' because her father was the guardian of John Walter Young's son (his dependent after his wife's death), James Anderson Young.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Saturday 26 April 25 20:27 BST (UK)
SCOTT
JESSIE
39
YOUNG
F
1855
778 / 1 / 54
Selkirk Burgh



Jessie Scott
Vital • Scotland, Civil Registration, 1855-1875, 1881, 1891

Jessie Scott person details
Name   Jessie Scott
Sex   Female
Age   39
Birth Year (Estimated)   1816
Father's Name   Walter Scott
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Janet Young Scott
Mother's Sex   Female
Spouse's Name   Walter Scott
Event Type   Death
Event Date   6 Oct 1855
Event Place   Selkirk, Selkirkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom


So this means that Mary Scott was born around 1854 hence why her birth is not in the Statutory records, and the church records are not complete. The only child of Walter and Jessie that I could find is Thomas.


Jessie Scott was registered Jessy... and her mother Jean Young was sometimes called Jane and Janet Young... and her father was... Walter Scott, same name as her husband. No wonder you found it confusing  ;D

SCOTT
JESSY
WALTER SCOTT/JEAN YOUNG FR135 (FR135)
F
15/10/1815
795
20 / 15
Lilliesleaf
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Saturday 26 April 25 20:51 BST (UK)
Yes, Thomas' birth/baptism is the only one of 5 I could find.  From Census I have

Thomas 1841
Margaret abt 1843
Walter abt 1845
Jane abt 1849
Mary Scott abt 1854
There might be twins who were born and died in 1851

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 10:45 BST (UK)
SCOTT
JESSIE
39
YOUNG
F
1855
778 / 1 / 54
Selkirk Burgh

The end column on her death record gives the following.  Pity about the ink blotches.  Looks like a Mary born 1851 and possibly died and then a Mary born sometime later, which I would presume to be the future wife of William Anderson.

I would have posted the whole image but it was too large.

Parish where born - Ashkirk (Lilliesleaf, Ashkirk and Midlem are south of Selkirk town)
How long in this district - 14 years Selkirk

Kit


Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 27 April 25 12:38 BST (UK)
So... he is Jessie Sudgen's nephew who was the informant of her death. How exciting  :D

Now I want to know what happened to John Walter Young  ;D

I'm a little confused now,  is John Walter Young the same person as John Young who married Margaret Anderson in Canada and the father of James Anderson Young.

Yes  ;D and to add insult to injury his real name was Walter John Jeanes  ;D

So, is this him , next of kin Mrs C Jeanes.
 Canada, World War I CEF Attestation Papers, 1914-1918 for John Jeanes 
Canada, World War I CEF Personnel Files, 1914-1918
U.S., Atlantic Ports Arriving and Departing Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1959 for Walter John Jeanes . 1913.   b Ashcott

married Mary Tucker in 1908
Walter John Jeanes in the 1911 England Census
 Birth Year   abt 1885    Ashcott, Somerset
Walter John Jeanes 26
Mary Jeanes 22 wife
Dorothy Jeanes   1   Daughter

1921 Greenton Somerset .   No Walter John
Edward Fixott De Anvergne b Jersey
Mary Jeanes 32 Years 11 Months Servant
Dorothy Lilian Mary Marion Jeanes 11 Years 11 Months   Boarder both parents alive

Dorothy Lilian Marion Mary Jennes
Age   25 Marriage Date   8 Sep 1934
Marriage Place   St Ouen, Jersey
Father Walter John Jeanes  deceased
spouse    William Alfred Allo

So has he died between 1921 and 1934.
There are so many with similar names it`s tricky to say the least.

Mary Jeanes nee Tucker . Death Date   1982    + Dorothy Allo   
Cemetery   Saint Ouen’s Churchyard
in the Global, Find a Grave® Index for Burials at Sea and other Select Burial Locations,










 
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 13:08 BST (UK)
Wilcoxon, thanks for pulling all of that together.  Yes, I think he is the same man and I'm very grateful to you and others for thinking out of the box with him.  He changed his name to Young, married again (presume bigamy) and had a child with Margaret Anderson.

If I could only follow their child James Anderson Young from birth to death with certainty, that would be so helpful.

Maybe DNA will help eventually.  Also, stories passed on to children.  Maybe Ella to her's, whose birth dates are around that time and a little beyond.

Kit

Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 16:02 BST (UK)
PatLac, you asked where Ella's middle names might have come from.  After further research I can confirm that Brown is included on the Anderson side.  Ella's Grandmother, Margaret Rutherford's parents were Andrew Rutherford and Mary Brown.  Not found a Burns connection yet tho.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 16:26 BST (UK)
Kit,

Do you have these Censuses from ScotlandsPeople?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 16:31 BST (UK)
And these
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 16:35 BST (UK)
Did you know abouth son John?

And James?


James Scott son of Walter & Jessie Scott b 5 May 1855 Selkirk, Selkirkshire
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 16:43 BST (UK)
Kit,

Do you have these Censuses from ScotlandsPeople?

Hi, I have the transcript from Ancestry only.  I've spent a lot of money on credits from SP for the Scott family and they are not my bloodline.  The 'John' is actually 'Jane'.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 16:47 BST (UK)
And these
I had purchased this census from SP.

1871 Rosebank, Selkirk
Thomas 29 Quarryman
Margaret 27 Sister Woolen Birler
Walter 24 Brother Mason
Jane 22 Sister Woolen Weaver
Mary 18 Sister Wollen Weaver
All unmarried and born Selkirk

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 16:48 BST (UK)
I thought John could have been one the twins? It's odd that the entry is M (male).
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 16:50 BST (UK)
Did you know abouth son John?

And James?


James Scott
Vital • Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

James Scott person details
Name   James Scott
Sex   Male
Father's Name   Walter Scott
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Jessie Scott
Mother's Sex   Female
Event Type   Birth
Event Date   5 May 1855
Event Place   Selkirk, Selkirkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original)   Selkirk, Selkirk, Scotland
Not aware of a James although I can see you've found a birth record.  I'll look again for the family in 1861 but by then both parents have died.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 16:56 BST (UK)
He was born in May and his mother died in October 1855.

Back to your DNA line... Do you know if Jessie Anderson had a second forename?
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 16:58 BST (UK)
Agree but Jane was born 1849 and survived.  She isn't shown on that census image you provided and there are 4 children born by then who survive for further years.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 17:01 BST (UK)
1861 census transcription from Ancestry for the Scott family:

Loan Rose Bank
Thomas Scott 20 Head Labourer
Jane Scott 12 Sister
Mary Scott 8 Sister
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 17:11 BST (UK)
Agree but Jane was born 1849 and survived.  She isn't shown on that census image you provided and there are 4 children born by then who survive for further years.

Kit

I think we're both right, because there is a John age 4 on the 1841 census, and other Scotts probably Walter or Jessie's relatives.

Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 17:23 BST (UK)
He was born in May and his mother died in October 1855.

Back to your DNA line... Do you know if Jessie Anderson had a second forename?
No record, Birth, census, marriage or death that I have accessed show a second forename.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 17:32 BST (UK)
He was born in May and his mother died in October 1855.

Back to your DNA line... Do you know if Jessie Anderson had a second forename?
No record, Birth, census, marriage or death that I have accessed show a second forename.

Kit

Interesting, because all her siblings had a second and Ella a third forename.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 17:38 BST (UK)
Do you think these Anderson are related, regarding Dobson surname and Jean's second forename?

Image is of death records
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 17:46 BST (UK)
Dobson comes from Jean (Jane) Dobson abt 1783 - 20 Sept 1872 who was William Forsyth Anderson's Grandmother.  She married his Grandfather John Anderson abt 1776 - 13 Oct 1849 at Selkirk 1 June 1804.

Edit:  Just changed John's year of birth from 1876 to 1776!

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 27 April 25 18:02 BST (UK)
Did you know abouth son John?

And James?


James Scott
Vital • Scotland, Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950

James Scott person details
Name   James Scott
Sex   Male
Father's Name   Walter Scott
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Jessie Scott
Mother's Sex   Female
Event Type   Birth
Event Date   5 May 1855
Event Place   Selkirk, Selkirkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original)   Selkirk, Selkirk, Scotland
Not aware of a James although I can see you've found a birth record.  I'll look again for the family in 1861 but by then both parents have died.

Kit

This may be another red herring or maybe not  :)

Name   Gideon Jameson
Marriage Date   16 Sep 1836    Selkirk, Selkirk, Scotland
Spouse   Janet Scott

1841
Gideon Jamieson is with 2 more of the same name , with a  James Scott and more Scotts.

1851 They have 5 children.

I have only put James down .

1861 Selkirk
Gideon Jamieson 47   Head
Janet Jamieson 45
James Scott 8 foster son b Selkirk

1871
Gideon Jamieson 57   
Janet Jamieson 56
 James Jamieson 16 Son

1881
Janet Jamieson   65   Head
Gideon Buckham 18   Grandson

1881
James Scott   28   Head
Jessie Scott 27   Wife
George Scott 5   Son
Beatrice Scott 3   Daughter
Janet Scott 1   Daughter

Still around  in 1891 and 1901.

Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 18:27 BST (UK)
Hi Wilcoxon, just to mention, I'm not really chasing the Scott line as they are not mine (actually my husband's) blood line.  I was only providing the info I had (or found) as Mary Scott married William Forsyth Anderson, who was a younger brother to my husband's 2 GGF James Anderson 1851-1924.  I won't be spending any more money/credits on the Scott family.

Thanks so much for contributing so far though.  Everyone is spending a lot of time and effort on this quest.  Maybe I should start a new thread on the Nephew of Jessie Sugden (nee Anderson) James Anderson Young who I'd be very interested to know more about.

Kit
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 19:12 BST (UK)
Good idea, and don't forget to add COMPLETED or ✅ to this thread (edited) and add a link of this thread to the new thread.
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 27 April 25 19:19 BST (UK)
Good idea, and don't forget to add COMPLETED or ✅ to this thread.

I agree, a lot has been found,  but best to concentrate on the important task.  :)
Title: Re: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: PatLac on Sunday 27 April 25 19:28 BST (UK)
Maybe start by tracking census records for these couples?

YOUNG
JAMES ANDERSON
PRYDE
HELEN MACKIE
1948
282 / 3 / 23
St Andrew (Dundee)


YOUNG
JAMES ANDERSON
PRIOR
MARY MCCRAE
1948
610 / A / 55
Old Cumnock

YOUNG
JAMES ANDERSON
RICHMOND
CHRISTINA STEEL
1953
577 / 1 / 37
Auchinleck
Title: Re: Completed: Who is the Nephew of Jessie Sugden nee Anderson?
Post by: KitCarson on Sunday 27 April 25 20:25 BST (UK)
Thanks guys, will concentrate on starting a new thread etc maybe next weekend.  The working week is nearly upon me and I want to dedicate time and space to research.

I hope you'll join in the search again on the new thread.  Thanks for all your help so far and enjoy your week.

Kit