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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Lewis21 on Saturday 19 April 25 17:33 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Having some trouble deciphering what the clerk was trying to write here - specifically the parish in Hampshire that George Bone is from. The first letter looks a lot like the 'J' in 'July' but there don't appear to be any parishes in Hampshire starting with that letter.
His next son's baptism in 1812 has him as being a native of Stokesbay Parish, which I assume is Stokes Bay in the parish of Alverstoke, but this doesn't bear any relation to the above word.
Thanks,
Lewis
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Smannel(l) - does that make any sense location wise?
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There are two clear examples of S - in Son (line 1) and St (line 6), which don't match the alleged parish name.
I agree with Lewis that the letter appears to be J.
Were J and I still interchangeable this late?
Is the second letter possibly s? Perhaps Ismane?
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The mother's parish is St Nicholas, Durham. ;)
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On George’s discharge from Artillery, his papers state that he was born in Stokes Bay, Hants.
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Discharge papers available
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8853877
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You haven't given a date or place for this baptism, but I suspect it is the one March 4th 1809 at Newcastle upon Tyne, as his wife is given as Mary Lumley of Durham.
Their marriage 21st July 1806 at St Nicholas Durham.
This is some 350 miles away from Hampshire.
No doubt the vicar had never heard of this place, and it was his attempt to try and spell what he heard.
There's a list of Hampshire parishes on wikipedia - none of which look anything like what is written in the baptism entry you have posted.
Have you considered it amy be a capital E? I have seen Es written curved like this, (both myself and an unrelated friend do this), although I'm not sure about the upward stroke that follows it if this was the case.
The nearest I could find in the parish lsiting was East Meon - perhpas the vicar's attempt of 'Esmane' was this. Hampshire and Northumberland dialects would have been very, very different at this time.
Can you see anywhere in this register written by the same person where there is a capital E?
These registers are not viewable on familysearch.
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Goldie if this suggestion
The nearest I could find in the parish lsiting was East Meon - perhpas the vicar's attempt of 'Esmane' was this.
is correct, (well even if it is not correct also) it is inspired and the result of much sounding out I suspect. ;D
Also well done the vicar!
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Goldie if this suggestion
The nearest I could find in the parish lsiting was East Meon - perhpas the vicar's attempt of 'Esmane' was this.
is correct, (well even if it is not correct also) it is inspired and the result of much sounding out I suspect. ;D
Also well done the vicar!
;D ;D
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Unfortunately I can't track down a baptism for a George Bone in East Meon :-[ or any neighbouring parish.
I have found one at Alverstoke:
George Bone son of James & Sarah Bone, baptised 8 June 1783.
The parish church is dedicated to St. Mary.
Nell
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Thanks very much everyone for your input - I can definitely see now how East Meon could be what was meant by Ismane or Esmane... I never thought of that!
I did also note the baptism in Alverstoke but it looks like that George died an infant in 1786 so that cannot be the one. Perhaps it going to be a case of combing through the originals for those parishes around that time and see if it reveals anything.
George has been a bit of mystery for years now - he suddenly appears in Newcastle when he marries Mary Lumley and decides to settle in the area, I am not sure what brought him to this neck of the woods.
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Just to add - I come from Hampshire and the pronunciation of East Meon never included the 'T'. It sounds something like eessmeehan which corresponds with the earlier suggestions that the vicar wrote what he heard.
Martin
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Just to add - I come from Hampshire and the pronunciation of East Meon never included the 'T'. It sounds something like eessmeehan which corresponds with the earlier suggestions that the vicar wrote what he heard.
Martin
That's the benefit of local knowledge Martin. Thanks.
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP5G-NLYD?lang=en
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/vitals/G4R2-PDK
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP5G-NLYD?lang=en
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/vitals/G4R2-PDK
Interesting links PatLac.
The 1746 baptism of a George Bone at East Meon is too early for the George who was 35 on his army papers in 1816, (born about 1781), but looks as though it may be of the same family.
I have seen several trees like this one on the familysearch link also on MyHeritage.
Unfotunately all of them say that George Bone was born and lived all his life in Durham, and his ancestors came from the North East.
The very first post by Lewis stated that "His next son's baptism in 1812 has him as being a native of Stokesbay Parish, which I assume is Stokes Bay in the parish of Alverstoke".
You don't say where this baptism was Lewis - I think we've presumed in Hampshire, but may be conceivably be back in Northumberland again. Where was he baptised?
Can there have been two families with father George Bone and his wife Mary Lumley?
Quite a puzzler!
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Yes, I just mentioned in case he's related to the OP's 'George Bone'. On FS there is some confusion between George Bone and Bones...
The FS family tree of George Bone christened 1787 in Branton, Northumberland is from a Non-conformist church. ???
Bio of his son George on Find a Grave.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/127784989/george-bone
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Discharge papers available
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8853877
Is 1816 the date of his discharge?
Reference: WO 97/1214/212
Description:
GEORGE BONE
Born STOKESBAY, Hampshire
Served in Cornish Fencibles; Devonshire Fencibles; Royal Artillery Drivers
Discharged aged 35
Covering date gives year of discharge.
Date: 1816
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That tree on FS is completely wrong or is another person named George Bone who married another Mary Lum(sl)ey. I'll see if I can find the 'right' wife!
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Discharge papers available
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8853877
Is 1816 the date of his discharge?
Reference: WO 97/1214/212
Description:
GEORGE BONE
Born STOKESBAY, Hampshire
Served in Cornish Fencibles; Devonshire Fencibles; Royal Artillery Drivers
Discharged aged 35
Covering date gives year of discharge.
Date: 1816
Image is on FindMyPast. It says Devon or Cornwall Fencibles for 1 year and 186 days, then RA driver for 13 years and 152 days (dates are given for this period as 5 March 1803 to May 1816 (date not given, presumably 14th - date of discharge). Doesn't quite add up to 13yr 152 days. Total service 14 years and 338 days. This should give an enlistment date in mid June 1801. It says he enlisted at 21, therefore birth date abt 1780
Discharge at approx 35 years of age is dated 14 May 1816. Says his birth is at Stokesbay "in or near the town of Portsmouth".
Ancestry has records of Cornish militia and Fencibles 1780 - 1831, his name doesn't come up.
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I've been round the same circles. As previous posts have said there is a baptism for George Bone son of James & Sarah, 8th Jun 1783 at St Mary's Alverstoke. A likely burial for the same George, son of James, 22nd Feb 1786 at the same church.
It's a puzzle.
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Have we a death record with age on it? To get a second opinion on his birth year.
If the Army record is accurate as to age we're looking at 1780 in Stokes Bay or nearest church. Why would a boy born in Hampshire join the Fencibles of a different county some way further west? Where is Stokes Bay would he be born? Nothing much there now, likely to be less in 1780. Maybe his father was in the navy / army defending the coast against invasion and in some sort of barracks now demolished. Then later moved to Devon or Cornwall when George was a child.
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Stokes Bay (grid ref.:)SZ 590 980) (50.782982, -1.163868) is an area of the Solent that lies just south of Gosport, between Portsmouth and Lee-on-the-Solent, Hampshire.
The settlement of Alverstoke is close by.
Alverstoke parish comprises the town and port of Gosport, a suburb of Portsmouth, and the chapelries and hamlets of Gosport, Forton, Anglesey, Hardway, and Elson. It is situated on the coast of Stoke Bay.
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Stokes Bay (grid ref.:)SZ 590 980) (50.782982, -1.163868) is an area of the Solent that lies just south of Gosport, between Portsmouth and Lee-on-the-Solent, Hampshire.
The settlement of Alverstoke is close by.
Alverstoke parish comprises the town and port of Gosport, a suburb of Portsmouth, and the chapelries and hamlets of Gosport, Forton, Anglesey, Hardway, and Elson. It is situated on the coast of Stoke Bay.
I'd seen the list of other hamlets but not Elson. Could that be what Ismane (or similar) was intended to be?
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All parishes here https://www.familysearch.org/mapp/ including Elson and East Meon, and according to it not many records survive.
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https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP5G-NLYD?lang=en
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/person/vitals/G4R2-PDK
Interesting links PatLac.
The 1746 baptism of a George Bone at East Meon is too early for the George who was 35 on his army papers in 1816, (born about 1781), but looks as though it may be of the same family.
I have seen several trees like this one on the familysearch link also on MyHeritage.
Unfotunately all of them say that George Bone was born and lived all his life in Durham, and his ancestors came from the North East.
The very first post by Lewis stated that "His next son's baptism in 1812 has him as being a native of Stokesbay Parish, which I assume is Stokes Bay in the parish of Alverstoke".
You don't say where this baptism was Lewis - I think we've presumed in Hampshire, but may be conceivably be back in Northumberland again. Where was he baptised?
Can there have been two families with father George Bone and his wife Mary Lumley?
Quite a puzzler!
Apologies! The two baptisms I have focused on are those from St. John's in Newcastle, both during that period of about 1797-1812 when all the wonderful extra detail was added to the baptismal records in Durham and Northumberland, particularly the parents' parish of origin.
George married Mary in 1806 in Durham in her native parish of St Nicholas. First child was Stephen in 1809 (haven't found an earlier baptism) in Newcastle:
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818ce33e93790ec8b332b3b/stephen-bone-baptism-northumberland-newcastle-upon-tyne-1809-07-30?locale=en
And then George in 1812 in the same place:
https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818ce37e93790ec8b333383/george-bone-baptism-northumberland-newcastle-upon-tyne-1812-06-07?locale=en
(I've checked these entries against the original BT images and they are accurate).
Subsequent baptisms don't give any further detail, only that they ended up in the Houghton-le-Spring area of Durham.
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Stokes Bay (grid ref.:)SZ 590 980) (50.782982, -1.163868) is an area of the Solent that lies just south of Gosport, between Portsmouth and Lee-on-the-Solent, Hampshire.
The settlement of Alverstoke is close by.
Alverstoke parish comprises the town and port of Gosport, a suburb of Portsmouth, and the chapelries and hamlets of Gosport, Forton, Anglesey, Hardway, and Elson. It is situated on the coast of Stoke Bay.
I'd seen the list of other hamlets but not Elson. Could that be what Ismane (or similar) was intended to be?
I've not seen that before either, the area is certainly about right based on the records seen so far.
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Have we a death record with age on it? To get a second opinion on his birth year.
If the Army record is accurate as to age we're looking at 1780 in Stokes Bay or nearest church. Why would a boy born in Hampshire join the Fencibles of a different county some way further west? Where is Stokes Bay would he be born? Nothing much there now, likely to be less in 1780. Maybe his father was in the navy / army defending the coast against invasion and in some sort of barracks now demolished. Then later moved to Devon or Cornwall when George was a child.
The entry in the GRO indexes gives his age as 60, died September quarter of 1841 in the Easington district - so that would give a birth year of 1780/1781, which ties in pretty well.
Now I think about it the Devon and Cornwall Fencibles is a bit random given where he was born, there must be something to it, surely.
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https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817ddc2e93790ec757cb24f/george-bone-burial-durham-kelloe-1841-07-22?locale=en
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Likely him in 1841 Nile street Kelloe, as George Bones nbic,
Piece number 313, Book number 14, Folio number 57, Page number 28
with Mary Bones 30, Henry 15, Elizabeth 11, John 7 all bic
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Pruning his tree on FS https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/PSHG-FSQ
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By 1851 it looks like Mary was claiming parish relief. I wonder if the poor law records have survived.