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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: ALAMO2008 on Friday 18 April 25 20:31 BST (UK)
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In January 1881 a James Matthew Keefe joined the Royal Navy as 115510 Station his Birth as 22 October 1865 Liverpool
But in 1885 a James Keefe enlisted into the 21st Hussars aged 19 as 2450 stating Birth as Kilmore Quay Co Wexford
This has split the Ancestors whether he was born in Liverpool or Wexford in 1865 because not only means his Parents had different Names as well as the Birth Year.
I maintain he was born 22 October 1866 in Liverpool December Quarter 1866
but the Ancestors won't accept that because it gives a different Mother's Name not known to them.
To Solve it- Was there a James Keefe born in Wexford in 1865?
and if so -are his Parents Known?
His Father was named John Keefe or Keeffe a Tailor Journeyman
who might have had a Wife previously
and Daughter Margaret
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What birthplace does he have on census?
James has parents and an older sister born Ireland in 1871
What do you mean by the ancestors won’t accept it as the mothers name is not known to them ???
The birth registration for Liverpool will have mothers maiden name
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I don't understand either-
What do you mean by the ancestors won’t accept it as the mothers name is not known to them ???
The birth registration for Liverpool will have mothers maiden name
From GRO index-
KEEFE, JAMES MATTHEW MCGEORGE [McGeorge being mother's maiden name]
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 154
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Maybe he meant other 'descendants', as he is, won't accept the record that Alamo2008 thinks is more likely.
But it would be good if we could have a conversation about records with our ancestors...sort of check we're going in the right direction. ;)
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But it would be good if we could have a conversation about records with our ancestors...sort of check we're going in the right direction. ;)
;D ;D
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Do you not have the marriage and children to check the spouse and mother’s name?
From Lancs BMD
James Matthew Keefe married Ellen Garrette in 1900 - Liverpool- Registry Office or Registrar attended.
Ellen Deprey married Eugene Garrett in 1888- Liverpool St Peter’s.
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Do you not have the marriage and children to check the spouse and mother’s name?
From Lancs BMD
James Matthew Keefe married Ellen Garrette in 1900 - Liverpool- Registry Office or Registrar attended.
Ellen Deprey married Eugene Garrett in 1888- Liverpool St Peter’s.
Cheers Heywood
Eugene Garrett died 1890
Ellen married James Matthew Keefe 1900
But before they married they had Two Children
James Matthew Jnr 1895
Catherine Bridget 1897
There are No Registrations of their Birth that I can see
But they pretended to be Married as Keefe at St Vincent de Paul Baptism on 28 July 1897 for Catherine
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James Matthew Keefe shows on each Census born Liverpool
1911 Census he declared he and Ellen had 7 Children of the Marriage but 2 Died pre 1911 leaving those 5 alive still at Home
But as said above No Trace of Registration of James Matthew Jnr or Catherine Bridget
But add to them add No Trace of Peter in 1904
I found Louisa September Quarter 1906
And Emma September Quarter 1910
No Trace of the Two that Died
The Family found it hard to accept that there were No WW1 Medals Cards for James Matthew Keefe Snr
But I found that he was One of Three Sgt Majors responsible for creating the First Dock Battalion of the King's Liverpool and he was the Secretary of the First UK Dock Union
He served at Home for 5 years 1914 to 1919 and Not Entitled to Any WW1 Medals
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What marital status is shown for James when he married in 1900 given he was 34 at that time
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Baptism 1901 St Vincent de Paulo
Maria Louisa Keefe (Mary Louisa)
I can’t see a birth but there is a Catholic burial for Mary Louisa Keefe in 1903.- address 85a Rathbone Street.
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What marital status is shown for James when he married in 1900 given he was 34 at that time
Sorry CaroleW
No one of the Family has a Copy of that 1900 Marriage Certificate ( Not mine as a Researcher)
His 1901 Census at Colchester Barracks he Declared Married and Aged 39 born Liverpool
There are No Trace of him on Census for 1891 or 1881 just 1871
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Baptism 1901 St Vincent de Paulo
Maria Louisa Keefe (Mary Louisa)
I can’t see a birth but there is a Catholic burial for Mary Louisa Keefe in 1903.- address 85a Rathbone Street.
Cheers Heywood
That's One of the Two Dead Children pre 1911 - Good Find.
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Well if my ancestors were to actually take the trouble to come back to tell me that I was taking a wrong turn I would be thrilled ! ;D
Some questions that occur to me:
What is there to say that the chap who joined the navy was the same fellow who joined the army?
How many siblings did this James have?
Any success in tracing their parentage/births?
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From GRO index-
KEEFE, JAMES MATTHEW MCGEORGE [McGeorge being mother's maiden name]
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 154
Did anyone find a Keefe/McGeorge Marriage?
Seems to me that marriage registration would be very useful...
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From GRO index-
KEEFE, JAMES MATTHEW MCGEORGE [McGeorge being mother's maiden name]
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 154
Did anyone find a Keefe/McGeorge Marriage?
Seems to me that marriage registration would be very useful...
Marriage 8 Sep 1863 St Anne, Liverpool, Lancashire,
John Kiffe
Parents James & Joanna
Spouse Bridget Mcgeorge
Parents Matthew & Sarah
Can be viewed on Anc*y
Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1933
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Marriage 8 Sep 1863 St Anne, Liverpool, Lancashire,
John Kiffe
Parents James & Joanna
Spouse Bridget Mcgeorge
Parents Matthew & Sarah
Can be viewed on Anc*y
Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1933
Thanks.
And looking at that marriage entry, the address for the groom's parents is Wexford! Specifically, Rath...inarery, Wexford.
Now the only "Rath..." location that I can think of in Wexford that comes anyway close is Rathjarney. Far from certain though.
https://townlands.ie/wexford/forth/rathmacknee/killinick/rathjarney/ (https://townlands.ie/wexford/forth/rathmacknee/killinick/rathjarney/)
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I already asked, but it is important to know if the James Keefe joining the Hussars was the same chap who had been in the navy.
Two reasons:
- Just to know if they are linked from a family history perspective.
- But also, if the same person, did he desert the navy, and hence need to distort some personal details so as to avoid being identified and arrested?
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There are No Trace of him on Census for 1891 or 1881 just 1871
Well, if OP is correct that the same fellow was in both the British navy and army, then it seems reasonable that in 1881 he was in the navy and could have been almost anywhere, while in 1891 he would have been in the army, and again could have been almost anywhere -but not in the census returns.
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- But also, if the same person, did he desert the navy, and hence need to distort some personal details so as to avoid being identified and arrested?
My guess is correct!
I just looked at his naval service record. He deserted!
So, when he joined the army - assuming he is the same fellow - he needed to cover his tracks and change some personal details. Otherwise he faced ending up in the brig.
So, he falsely changed his place of birth to Wexford, where his father and grandparents came from.
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Good sleuthing following reasonable assumptions Wexflyer! :)