RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: patval on Tuesday 15 April 25 20:42 BST (UK)

Title: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: patval on Tuesday 15 April 25 20:42 BST (UK)
Looking to find information re Doris (Doll) Smith. Aunt Doll was my father's sister, I was 19 when my father died in 1968 and the family lost touch.

Aunt Doll lived in Worksop, her parents were John Thomas Smith and Sara Ann Isaac. her siblings were John Thomas Smith 1908 (AKA Bill), Richard (AKA Dick). Gladys, Cissy Margery (AKA Madge), Cecil Maurice (AKA Son/Sonny- my father), Albert and John.

Uncle Bill married Jessie Hett
Dick married Gladys Broome
Gladys married Charles William Barlow
Then came Aunt Doll who I can find nothing about but I believe died in Worksop
Cissy Margery married Stanley Thomas Oxby and I remember 1 son Graham Stanley. (he was our icecream man and we got Huge helpings.  D..
Cecil Maurice married Sylvia Daines
Albert, again I know very little about him other than he served in Burma during the war - a Muleteer I was told..
Last of all John.

Any help would be greatly appreciated by myself and my sister.

Patricia x


Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 15 April 25 23:02 BST (UK)
You can download a digital copy of her birth cert for £3 which will give you her full birthdate.  Use that info to look for her on the 1939 register.  She may have married any time from 1930 onwards
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: patval on Tuesday 15 April 25 23:52 BST (UK)
I have found her on the 1921 census with family she is aged 9 and 1 month. Cannot locate her on 1939 so I think she may have married. Quite a few Doris Smiths around too in the area so cannot confirm.

Thank you for your help

Patricia
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 16 April 25 00:25 BST (UK)
With her full birthdate it will be easier
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 16 April 25 07:38 BST (UK)
Hi, based on the information you have given I believe the following. Doris was born 1912 in Worksop. She married 1936 William H Birch. Appears in 1939 war register dob 12.09.1912. Died 1972 in Worksop with a dob 15.09.1912.
Do not think they had any children


£3 digital birth image would confirm dob as Carole has said
SS
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: AlanBoyd on Wednesday 16 April 25 08:09 BST (UK)
I know this is peripheral to what you are looking for, but here are the places that the Smith family were living:

 in 1921:
Crow Park Farm (Crow Park Lodge Cottages), Sutton on Trent
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.8&lat=53.19098&lon=-0.83983&layers=168&b=Opendata&o=100 (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.8&lat=53.19098&lon=-0.83983&layers=168&b=Opendata&o=100)

and in 1939:
Manor Lodge Farm, Worksop
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.6&lat=53.30672&lon=-1.15554&layers=168&b=Opendata&o=100 (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.6&lat=53.30672&lon=-1.15554&layers=168&b=Opendata&o=100)

In both cases you can move the slider at the bottom left to see a modern map underlay, and of course you can zoom out to get a better idea of where these farms are (they are both still there).
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 16 April 25 08:58 BST (UK)
The GRO index shows four children registered in East Retford (inc. Doris), then three in Southwell.
(Added: Sutton on Trent is in Southwell)
Some variation in mmn: Isac (Richard), Isaacs (Cecil, Sissie (sic)).

And here is Raines Avenue on the north side of Worksop, probably built 1919-1939.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.0&lat=53.32186&lon=-1.12293&layers=258&b=6e&o=50
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 16 April 25 09:24 BST (UK)
1911 census gives the family in Tuxford civil parish, birthplaces transcribed as Marmhan, which I think should be Marnham.
Added: Here are High Marnham and Low Marnham.  Tuxford is to the west.
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.0&lat=53.22016&lon=-0.79431&layers=168&b=Opendata&o=100
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: patval on Wednesday 16 April 25 18:04 BST (UK)

Hi everyone, thanks for the input... Aunt Doll was born 15th May 1912 , I downloaded her birth detail from the GOV site (thanks CaroleW didn't know I could do that). So Aunt doll wasn't the Doris who married William H Birch, so I can cross her off the list Softly Softly, thanks for that info though...

I live in Tuxford, close to Crow Park Farm and not too far from Manor Lodge Farm which is in Worksop.. I have a fair amount of detail regarding my aunts and uncles but it is Aunt Doll who eludes me.

Patricia x
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 16 April 25 18:18 BST (UK)
With that exact birthdate, there is a Doris M Hanson at 7 Portland Place, Worksop in the 1939 register.  Probable husband Arthur E Hanson, daughter Gladys M plus two redacted entries.  Could this be her?
However I cannot see a marriage, nor birth for Gladys.  There are 27 Doris/Dora entries with that birth date in the 1939 register, 9 without a second initial.  Possibly she left Worksop and returned.
(Amended)
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: patval on Wednesday 16 April 25 20:09 BST (UK)
Hi MollyC I have just looked at the possibility of Doris and Arthur Hanson, I too cannot find a birth for Gladys M not even born to a Doris Smith (Illegitimate). Also Arthur would appear to be 25 yrs older than Doris.... which is not unusual I suppose.. She may as you say moved out of the area. Thanks for the info though.. I will keep searching x
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 16 April 25 20:33 BST (UK)
Just a thought, that Arthur was her father in law, and her husband was in the forces - but still no marriage.
Generally - had they been abroad?
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 17 April 25 09:54 BST (UK)
Whilst never conclusive there are 5 Hanson/smith births in Worksop from 1935-47, the 1st being an a****  h as per 1939 register.

SS
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: patval on Thursday 17 April 25 10:37 BST (UK)
Thanks softly softly... 

The first 4 names ring no bells but surprisingly enough I do remember a cousin Pearl, Im sure she had she had a younger brother Freddy though.. I always thought she was much younger than I was perhaps not. Considering the other 4 would have been much older than I (b1948) I am sure we never associated much.
I think a visit to the Library in Worksop is on the cards.. look at the microfiche there.. Thanks for finding these.. I may find a death for Aunt Doll now I have a possibility of a surname.

Happy Easter
Patricia
xx
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: Ili1133 on Thursday 17 April 25 11:00 BST (UK)
I wonder if this is worth exploring further.

Free BMD

Worksop registration district

Q3 1930 Doris M Smith m Charles Fielding
Q4 1930 Gladys M Fielding mmn Smith

No other children recorded to this couple in Worksop. Q2 1935 is the first Hanson/Smith child mentioned by softlysoftly. Can’t see a death for Charles or a Fielding/Hanson marriage, so MollyC’s suggestion of looking into Arthur’s family further is a good one.
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 17 April 25 11:07 BST (UK)
Also this one:

birth: Q3 1951 Frederick Smith mmn Smith

Added: death: Q2 1942  Gladys M Hanson  11
 - as per #14 - should the birthdate in the 1939 register be read as 1930?
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: Ili1133 on Thursday 17 April 25 11:10 BST (UK)
Patricia, do you know what Aunt Doll’s middle name was?
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 17 April 25 12:23 BST (UK)
 I am not certain that the marks after "Doris" form an M.  It is nothing like the adjacent Ms on the page.
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: Ili1133 on Thursday 17 April 25 13:51 BST (UK)
I agree, not certain, but if you look at the Mark King entry just above the Hanson household, the strokes are similar. Looks as though the enumerator ran out of space!
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: patval on Thursday 17 April 25 17:48 BST (UK)

Ili1133
As far as I know Aunt Doll didn't have a middle name, at least she wasn't given one at registration.

MollyC

birth: Q3 1951 Frederick Smith mmn Smith... Interesting, as I recall cousins Pearl and Freddy..

Thank you
Patricia x
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: Ili1133 on Thursday 17 April 25 20:38 BST (UK)
 Q4 1947 Pearl A Hanson mmn Smith
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: willsy on Thursday 17 April 25 20:56 BST (UK)
I did wonder about this article when I was looking last night, no mention of a daughter

Nottingham Journal 1 March 1938
TWO DAYS SENTENCE
For Labourer Who Commited Bigamy at Southwell

In short Charles Fielding 31 farm labourer pleads guilty to bigamy at Notts. Assizes, sentenced to 2 days and had served them whilst waiting for trial.

He married his legal wife at Worksop, in September 1930 and they lived together in lodgings for 3 months and 5 weeks with 'the wife's parents'

He went through a form of marriage with Miriam Gertrude Brittain at Southwell...
Supt. Wilson said Fielding's legal wife was living with another man.
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: patval on Thursday 17 April 25 21:12 BST (UK)
Hi Willsy

Made me smile... he sounds like a bit of a lad... Doris' sister Madge was a great gossip, I'm sure if this had been Aunt Doris the whole family would have been party to it... The family loved a bit of gossip..

Only 2 days sentence! wonder if he went back to Miriam, obviously his legal wife didn't want him.

Patricia
x
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: Ili1133 on Thursday 17 April 25 21:54 BST (UK)
Death Q1 1951 Arthur E Hanson age 59

This might explain the birth registration of F… Smith mmn Smith MollyC mentioned in Q3 1951.

Need to be careful about discussing living people with this generation.
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: patval on Thursday 17 April 25 22:21 BST (UK)

I appreciate that.... thank you
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: MollyC on Thursday 17 April 25 22:57 BST (UK)
There is around a 5-year discrepancy between the ages of Arthur E Hanson at death and in the 1939 register.
Title: Re: Searching for: Doris (Doll) Smith b1912 b East Retford Notts lived Worksop Notts
Post by: softly softly on Friday 18 April 25 17:08 BST (UK)
Deleted