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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jomot on Sunday 13 April 25 21:54 BST (UK)
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I don’t have much experience with convict records and I’m getting myself in a bit of a muddle so I’m hoping someone will take pity and help me out!
John Mackley was sentenced to death at the Leicester Assises on 22 July 1812, but this must have been commuted as he arrived in NSW the following October aboard the Earl Spencer. The convict indent gives his YoB as c1764: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/2024/records/30499
He gained his ticket of leave in 1823. The ToL was reissued in 1829 but gives his YoB as 1775: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=ANZ%2FAUSTICKETSOFLEAVE%2F00011793&tab=this
The convict indent also has a handwritten note added that I can’t make out (see below). He died in Sept 1835 so its not that, and there seems to be some reference to a letter in 1844?
What I’m ultimately trying to do is prove or disprove whether this man is my 4xG Grandfather, so any other information about his DoB or PoB would be fantastic.
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Doesn’t it say died Oct 1838?
Then see letter dated 6 March 1844
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Perhaps the letter dated 1844 was an enquiry about his well being sent from family in England, because they had not heard from him for a while (since he died in 1838).
I think when the ticket of leave was re-isssued, because the first copy was mutilated and cancelled, his year of birth as 1775 was a clerical error. All other details are correct with the original convict indent.
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Doesn’t it say died Oct 1838?
Then see letter dated 6 March 1844
No, as per my opening post he died September 1835. His burial (St Lukes, Liverpool) says aged 70, Ship: Earl Spencer, Quality or Profession: Ticket of Leave, so its definitely him.
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From NSW State Archives.
Place of birth Leics
INX-65-63808
Title
MACKLEY John
Index Name
Convicts Index 1791-1873
Name John MACKLEY
Index Number 65
Ship Earl Spencer
Year 1813
Ticket of Leave
Entry No
29/861
Remarks
District: Liverpool; Born: Leics; Trade: Labourer; Tried: Leics Asz
Citation [4/4072; Reel 912]
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Thanks :).
However, that's the index for the ToL I've linked above and the image says born Leicestershire. I was hoping something somewhere was a bit more specific, but I'm not sure what other records might be available to check.
If it is my 4xG Grandfather then neither he or any siblings were baptised, meaning I'm not entirely certain of his YoB so was hoping for something showing more than just the county.
The 1844 letter might be the key to it, but I've no idea where or if I might find a copy.
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Leicester Mercury 31 July 1812 reporting on prisoners in the County Gaol: ". . . John Mackley, for stealing of a five pound note and other articles at Saxelbye . . ."
Drosybont
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There is an item relating to your John Mackley in the Colonial Secretary Papers
Here he is recorded as John MARCHLEY, and has him on a list of convicts forwarded to Thomas Moore of Liverpool Plains for distribution.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX2521041
(takes a moment to load)
That is the only record of communication I can see for him.
Note - His death date (Sept 1835) as recorded on find a grave site may not be accurate.
ADDED - TOL item from newspaper.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/2182094?searchTerm=mackley%20AND%20%22Earl%20Spencer%22
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Leicester Mercury 31 July 1812 reporting on prisoners in the County Gaol: ". . . John Mackley, for stealing of a five pound note and other articles at Saxelbye . . ."
Thanks, and that's part of my problem :-\
'My' John Mackley married Ann Richards in 1793 as John Coy Mackley of Freeby. His presumed parents (John Mackley & Mary Coy) had married in Freeby in 1764.
Freeby and Saxelbye appear to be about 8-miles apart on opposite sides of Melton Mowbray, so there's just this niggling doubt.
John Coy Mackley had to sell his farm and make an arrangement with his creditors in 1809 so its possible he was driven to theft in order to feed his family and went to somewhere he was less likely to be known, but I still don't feel confident enough to claim him as mine!
The lack of a YoB for him and the 'missing' middle name in Australia are still a concern.
Note - His death date (Sept 1835) as recorded on find a grave site may not be accurate.
The actual church register is online so I'm satisfied that the 1835 burial date is correct. Its a puzzle!
Thank you for those additional records - I kept looking & looking at the Colonial Secretary image but couldn't see him until the penny dropped that there were two columns of names to each page ::).
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Ancestry records
Sydney, Australia, Anglican Parish Registers, 1814-2011 for John Mackley
has copy of Burial's at parish Of St Lukes Liverpool , which records his burial 26.9.1835 aged 70yrs
Cass
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'My' John Mackley married Ann Richards in 1793 as John Coy Mackley of Freeby. His presumed parents (John Mackley & Mary Coy) had married in Freeby in 1764.
Freeby and Saxelbye appear to be about 8-miles apart on opposite sides of Melton Mowbray, so there's just this niggling doubt.
John Coy Mackley had to sell his farm and make an arrangement with his creditors in 1809 so its possible he was driven to theft in order to feed his family and went to somewhere he was less likely to be known, but I still don't feel confident enough to claim him as mine!
I haven't looked into it in detail, but there is a John MACKLEY and William MACKLEY noted as farmers of Freeby in William WHITE's 1846 "History, gazetteer, and directory of Leicestershire and the small County of Rutland, together with the adjacent towns of Grantham & Stamford : comprising general surveys of both counties and separate historical, statistical & topographical descriptions of all their hundreds, towns, parishes "
Is this your man, or maybe a son?
I agree, though, the 1844 letter sounds like it will help identify the John MACKLEY convict.
Modified to add:
Sorry, looking at the reference again, I see it says that John and William MACKLEY were farmers at Welby, 5 miles from Freeby. Need to put my glasses on ...
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Ooh now that's interesting. He did have a son named John who became an ag lab, but I'm not aware of one named William so I'll look into that.
Ann, his wife, died just a few months after he was imprisoned so I've also been looking for any records relating to the children in this period, but so far I haven't found anything.
EDIT: Just seen your edit. Oh well!
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I've just spotted a record I didn't see earlier, which is an 1805 acquittal at Leicester Assizes for John Mackley charged with larceny from the person.
Any further information about that might be handy too.
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Unfortunately, a newspaper account of the acquittal doesn't give any further information.
Saturday, Mar. 30, 1805
Publication: Northampton Mercury
"The assizes for the county of Leicester ended on Monday last ... John Mackley ... were severally acquitted."
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Another dead end then by the look of it.
I've been trying to figure out that reference to the letter - 44/2540 dated 6 Mar 1844 and it seems to be referenced here under Reel 2537 then either item 2401 or 2403
https://mhnsw.au/articles/922/#Indexes-1826-1906
I've looked on Ancestry on the Register of Letters Received 1843-1845 and there is an entry numbered 44/2540 (image 233), but its nothing to do with John Mackley and not dated 6 March 1844, so I'm more confused than ever ???
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He has a death certificate. It doesn't record the names of his parents but it may give you a more specific place of birth:
Name John Macley
Death Date 1835
Death Place Liverpool, New South Wales
Registration Date 1835
Registration Place Liverpool, Australia
Volume Number V18351994 19
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I think you will find that at this time prior to 1856 when Registration began, the information on the BMD Index comes from the burial record, which Jomot already has.
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I've been looking at the records for the conviction of John MACKLEY, does it seem that Peter BRAMBLEY (born c1795 Birmingham) is involved in the same offense? Have you found any connection between them?
Also, can't really decipher what this Criminal Record says. :-\
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There was another convict John Mackley, came out on the David Clarke in 1841, so that 1844 letter may be his:
Details for the convict John Mackley (1841)
Convict Name: John Mackley
Trial Place: Norwich General Sessions of the Peace
Trial Date: 31 July 1840
Sentence: 7 years
Notes:
Arrival Details
Ship: David Clarke
Arrival Year: 1841
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According to the newspapers Peter Bramley was convicted at the same sessions for stealing watches and other items from his father's shop at Market Harborough. He was just 17 and initially sentenced to death.
John was convicted of stealing money at Saxelbye, so the two weren't connected.
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There was another convict John Mackley, came out on the David Clarke in 1841, so that 1844 letter may be his:
I did consider that and then dismissed it as the annotation seemed very specific to the Earl Spencer, but having looked again there's something in the Hobart Town Gazette, 1844 (I'll have to dig around for a more specific date) saying:
John Mackley, David Clarke, to ditto (to Allan M'Kinnon, Dalness)
But then what has 1838 got to do with anything if this man only arrived in 1841?
The reference 44/2540 in the register of letters received was dated 28 Mar 1844 from the Royal Engineers and says (I think!): Appl[ication]n from Lt Hamilton RE Norfolk Island for use of Govern[men]t House, so doesn't seem to connect to either man!
No 44/2540 dated 6 Mar 1844 has to refer to something, but what? And where?
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I think it's possible that the reference is to the Colonial Secretary's Letters which are indexed in this way, but searching under Mackley doesn't bring up any results:
https://mhnsw.au/indexes/colonial-secretary/colonial-secretary-letters-received-1826-1896/
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I agree, I think its something to do with those records, but what?
The details I posted about the Royal Engineers are from the Colonial Secretary's Letters (Register of Letters Received) but that particular letter doesn't seem to have anything to do with John Mackley, either by name or otherwise.
I suppose I was hoping some wise, wonderful person knew their way around the various records and could magic something up, but alas no :'(
In the absence of anything definitive in Australia I think I'm going to have to go back to the records in England and see if I can find anything new there instead. My gut tells me its him, but I just need to prove it!
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As it says in the "Searching the Index ... Limitations" section about the Colonial Secretary's Letters "The index is not a complete list of all material within the series NRS 905". Perhaps an email to the NSW Archives might help? Looks like you need Reel 2934 Item (5/2400) .
https://mhnsw.au/articles/922/
I also notice there is a record for a "John MACK" in 1844 (with ref no 44/263) at Sydney Hospital. Not necessarily related to your man.
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His death record has his abode as "Cecil Hills". Here is a link to some information on it:
https://colonialheritage.stqry.app/en/story/30168
There is reference to a database which I tried to access, but the link keeps timing out.
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As it says in the "Searching the Index ... Limitations" section about the Colonial Secretary's Letters "The index is not a complete list of all material within the series NRS 905". Perhaps an email to the NSW Archives might help? Looks like you need Reel 2934 Item (5/2400) .
https://mhnsw.au/articles/922/
The reel you mention is just an Index to the register of letters received, ie it gives a surname or subject and then the reference number, nothing more. You then need to go to the actual register of letters received to get more details, which I've already done - 44/2540 was dated 28 Mar 1844 from the Royal Engineers, ie Appl[ication]n from Lt Hamilton RE Norfolk Island for use of Govern[men]t House
I've been through the Index for the letter M, Jan-Jun 1844, and there's nothing at all for Mackley or anything similar.
I also looked up 44/2546 in case it was bad handwriting, but this relates to John McCurdy of Penrith regarding his wife Sophia, and is dated 26 Mar 1844.
I think you could be right though and that an email to the archives may be needed.
Thanks also to Christine for the Cecil Hills info - I'd done a little bit of searching but had planned to come back to it, so hopefully the database will be up and running again by then ;D