RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Limerick => Topic started by: Essnell on Friday 11 April 25 08:21 BST (UK)
-
Hi Rootschatters,
I have a problem and need help. I am trying to trace a DNA match that I have . Now this is a sort of surprise connection that appears to lead to the person quoted . Sophey or Sophie Gilbert. I have already got this person in my tree.
Her father is Robert Frederick Gilbert born Clogheen Ireland1865
Her mother is Mary Lyons.
Siblings are : Sarah 1894 Limerick
Harriet 1895 Limerick
Wilfred 1896 Limerick
Sophey 1899 Co. Tipperary
Georgena 1902 Co. Tipperary
Emily 1905 co. Tipperary
I have her on the 1901 Census with parents and siblings age 3 yrs.
Townland: Kilclonagh
District: Rahelty
County Tipperary
1911 Census age 12. and in Laois [Queen's] County
The DNA indicates that she married Edward Kingston : found that record
date 1925 County Cork Vol. 5 pg 41
BUT I cannot find her birth record anywhere.
I cannot find her on the civil records search either From1895 through to 1905.
I have come on this area as this is basically an Irish record I am looking for.
Thanks in advance for any ideas .
Essnell.
-
Can only find these births-
Georgine Jane 13 October 1901 at 10:00pm
Her twin Thomas George then at 10:15pm
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1901/01932/1747713.pdf
He died 5 January 1903 aged 15 months.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05670/4597058.pdf
Doesn't appear that the other Gilbert children were registered.
-
The DNA indicates that she married Edward Kingston : found that record
date 1925 County Cork Vol. 5 pg 41
20 January 1925 at Garrycloyne Parish Church.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1925/09143/5306751.pdf
She was living at Turret House, Blarney. Note that one of the witnesses was G Gilbert (possibly Georgina).
-
She was living at Turret House, Blarney.
Turret Farm House - Townland Ballygrohan, Civil Parish Currykippane, PLU Cork
https://landedestates.ie/property/3793
https://arcg.is/1yDSuz2
https://www.townlands.ie/cork/cork/currykippane/st-marys/ballygrohan/
-
Marriage of Robert Frederick Gilbert & Mary Lyons on 14 June 1893-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1893/10600/5861850.pdf
Unnamed son born 11 July 1893 to Frederick Gilbert & Mary (Lyons)-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1893/02287/1858684.pdf
Unnamed daughter born 1894- possibly Sarah?
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1894/02233/1841842.pdf
-
Wilfred Gilbert born 1896-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1896/02177/1824598.pdf
-
Wilfred Gilbert born 1896-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1896/02177/1824598.pdf
His marriage to Mary O'Sullivan - 3 June 1936
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1936/08923/5227180.pdf
-
HI both responders,
Thank you both very much that is all very helpful.
I don't quite know what happened with this family. Robert Frederick was a Land Steward and I think that meant he was possibly moving about quite a lot. he is also sometimes a Game Keeper.
I think that they way the names I have were spelt as for family use at times. some off Census records.
the info on turret house is great and also the maps etc. I have quite a number of these for the Grandparents.
They were in the Shanbally Townland. i will now try to see if there can be anything more gleaned from looking up Edward kingston. and their children that will help in making a connection.
thanks again Essnell. Now for supper.
Aaddit: kiltaglassan that's a great bit of info.. especially where he was residing at the time Turret House. Same as for Sophie . may be that is where the family were living. Thank you. Essnell
-
Possible death record for Wilfred Gilbert of Blarney. 28 September 1972. #275
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1972/04098/4036481.pdf
-
No closer to finding Sophey's birth but this might be of interest-
Weekly Irish Times, 12 June 1937: Double Wedding At Maryborough ... Rowe, son of Mr. and Mrs. J. H. Rowe, The Lough, Cork, was married to Miss Emily M. C. Gilbert, youngest daughter of Mr. and Mrs. R. F. Gilbert, of Turret House, Blarney, and Mr. Vernon G. F. Bovenizer, B.A., ... only son of Mr. and Mrs. M. F. Bovenizer ... [bridesmaid Miss Florence Gilbert]
Marriage gives groom as Cyril Francis Rowe and bride as Mary Emily; a witness is Florence Harriett Gilbert-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1937/08901/5219138.pdf
A Florence Harriett Gilbert of Mellifont married in 1939 but her father listed as George Charles Gilbert, an estate steward-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1939/08864/5205516.pdf
-
Hi aghadowey,
Yes that Irish Weekly Times entry is very interesting indeed.
Emily was the youngest daughter of Robert Frederick Gilbert and Mary Lyons.
I have tried to find Florence Harriet 's birth .. no luck so far.
However this is definitely Emily's marriage . Florence might be a cousin. There were quite a few siblings of Robert Frederick Gilbert.
Re Florence' marriage and the father.. it is odd that his occupation is Estate Steward. this is what Robert Frederick was as well.
I need to do some thinking....
thanks for the above information .. much appreciated. Essnell.
-
Hi.
I have been looking again and getting no where.
Tried the Kingston idea but nothing there either. On the marriage image it has Edward's father as William Kingston
farmer and that has not been of any assistance either.
About to see if the civil recs have anything for these two people.
Essnell
added No luck with the civil records site. I have contacted the only other person I think may help [a match to a match...] ,however their Anc. site has very little about Sophia and Edward.
Essnell
-
I have tried to find Florence Harriet 's birth .. no luck so far.
Florence Harriet Gilbert - 1 July 1912 - father George Gilbert, land steward. MMN Glasby
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1912/01483/1603896.pdf
Parent's marriage - 20 September 1904
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10208/5715433.pdf
-
Harnett died 1937 in Dublin
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1938/04770/4279729.pdf
Not clear it’s her from the cert but her death notice in the Irish Examiner Dec 21 1937 gives her as the daughter of RF Gilbert and Mrs Gilbert The Turret Farm Blarney
-
I have tried to find Florence Harriet 's birth .. no luck so far.
Florence Harriet Gilbert - 1 July 1912 - father George Gilbert, land steward. MMN Glasby
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1912/01483/1603896.pdf
Parent's marriage - 20 September 1904
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/marriage_returns/marriages_1904/10208/5715433.pdf
There were at least two Florence Harriet Gilberts in the family- this is not the daughter of Robert Frederick Gilbert that Essnell is looking for.
-
Sophie's birth still eludes me perhaps she was born around the time the family moved from Limerick to Tipperary and they overlooked registering it. The 1911 census says 7 children/6 living which doesn't count the eldest unnamed son born 1893 (I didn't find a death for home but the deceased child mentioned on census is probably Thomas George).
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Queen_s_Co_/Curraclone/Ballyduff/786222/
Also for reference is link to 1901 census, as well as death registrations for Robert & Mary-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tipperary/Rahelty/Kilclonagh/1713433/
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1941/04697/4253218.pdf
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1957/04385/4139508.pdf
Deaths of Edward & Sophie Kingston-
Weekly Irish Times, 4 Jan.1958: KlNGSTON—December 25, 1957, at the Mater Nursing Home, Eccles street, Edward Kingston, Mayfield. Portlaoise. Deeply regretted wife, family and friends.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1957/04388/4140815.pdf (age 65, shopkeeper, home address Main St. Portlaoise)
Irish Independent, 29 July 1986: KINGSTON (nee Gilbert) (Portlaoise) July 2_, 1986, at Rosetta Nursing Home, Sophie, beloved wile of the late Edward Kingston, Mayfield, Abbeyleix Road; deeply mourned by her sons William, Robert, daughters Emily, M_, sister Emily, nieces, nephew, sons-in-law, daughter-in-law, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, relatives ...
I did find lots more but no further forward finding Sophie''s birth.
-
Post deleted
-
hi
Kiltaglassan,
Florence Harriett Gilbert , She was the bridesmaid and witness at the double wedding for Emily and xxx Rowe. The other couple were Bovenizier and xxx. reported in the Weekly Irish Times as posted earlier.
So yes, it looked very much like she was related in some way. Thanks for those two links about her.
Food for later research.
Essnell.
-
Hi Aghadowey.
Thank you for all those records.
Each bit helps with this puzzle but it looks very likely that Sophie was not registered.. How that happened we may never know. May be she was registered with another name but that's unlikely but it's possible.
Once I piece all the info on this thread together I will see what's next with her.
Thanks for all your searching.
Essnell.
-
Hi Sinann,
Thank you for that record that would be Harriett, dau of R F Gilbert.
She was a shop assistant in the drapery store run by one of the family at Turret House.
there is some info on Turret House earlier in this thread.
thanks for helping here.
Essnell
-
Hi everyone here,
Would anyone know where I could find more information about Turret House Farm. I have got views of the place on google but it's a bit hard to tell what the various buildings were. which is the farm house. seems to still all be there today.
Interested as there were other Gilbert family members living at this place.
thanks in advance Essnell,
-
Do you have the townland for Turret House Farm?
Townland is Ballygrohan.
https://landedestates.ie/property/3793
-
Hi aghadowey,
Thanks for that but I already had that link. It's good information but no photo of any sort. Another link shows images from probably Google and those only show roof tops.
I did google it and as I said - layout and rooftops and not able to see a street view. The little yellow man would not stay anywhere on the image. So I think it may be on a private road of the Blarney Castle Estate.
Probably out of luck on this one.
thanks :) Essnell.
-
So I think it may be on a private road of the Blarney Castle Estate.
It is
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tr7/
-
Hi Kiltaglassan,
yes exactly . that's the image you sent me the link to. and it's the same when i googled it seperately. so cant see what the house was like .
It must have been a decent house as it got mentioned on several Gilbert records and in new paper reports about Gilbert marriages as above.
I have a similar problem with the Shanbally House near Burncourt. It's there on the Townland map but nothing about it anywhere else.
very frustrating..... and a tad disappointing. but hanks anyway.
Essnell
-
You can learn a bit about the house from the House and Building Return in the census.
There are only two houses in Ballygrohan so safe in this case to assume it house number 1
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001899816/
And the Out-Offices etc return tells a bit more
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001899818/
-
It's really difficult to tell from the aerial view what is the main house, old outbuildings or new outbuildings. There's one block which might, or might not be the house but I'm seriously wondering it the house is even standing now. One the site I linked earlier you can see what other large houses are in the vicinity and all the ones I've checked have photos but there are none for Turret House.
-
Hi Kiltaglassan , aghadowey,
those records are very interesting at least it shows what was what behind the main house. It doesn't look like there was any other living area so one big farm house..
now i have this : I have used on odd occasions this group irelandxo. I left a message to see if anyone knew anything about it on the Tipperary board. A reply has this information. Turret Farm House up for rent. There are 10 images of the building and rooms inside and a good description of what is there. Of course the interior has been updated to match recent times but the basics are all still there. I don't think the outbuildings go with the house but they might.
It is situated on the grounds of Blarney Castle and on that private road on the map. Castle Estate Road.
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/message-board/turret-house-farm-ballygorhancork
https://tricket.ie/unique-and-impressive-detached-home_3200
the links are to the message board info and the Agent's page where you can see the house.
It's lovely and very impressive.
many thanks to both of you on this search,
Essnell
-
Via Google I had come across those photos of Turret Farm House but didn't mention them since I believe this isn't the house you are looking for based on description from census records. To me this current dwelling looks like office housing that has been turned into dwellings.
From https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001899818/ there is a stable, coach house, cow house, calf house, dairy, piggery, fowl house, boiling house, barn, turf house, potato house, 3 sheds and laundry.
From https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001899816/ the dwelling house has 8 rooms with 7 windows in front.
From https://tricket.ie/unique-and-impressive-detached-home_3200 it seems there are now 2 semi-detached dwellings- one on left has too many windows and one on right too few. The interior of the building shows some old materials used but not really any old features. There is no main entrance as one would expect. In the first and third photos you can see a projection from the left side of the roof which is for the bell- which would have been used for the farm.
It may be that the Valuation Revision Books would throw some light on the matter.
-
The dwelling that's for sale can be identified here by the structure for the bell- the long building running north to south with the "bell tower" at the north end-
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01tr7/
The aerial view also shows what looks to be an old entrance from the west side curving in to the present dwelling. If that is the original entrance then it likely led up to the front of the house (possibly to the north-west of the "bell tower" (can't make out exactly what is there now) and then continued to the offices. Now, the entrance to the farmyard seems to be further along that road to where the new sheds have been built.
-
In the newspapers several notices for planning permission
1995 slatted cattle building, slurry tank and silage pit
1998 new farm machinery shed
again 1998
upgrade existing stables, conversion of existing hay loft to living accommodation, new indoor swimming pool and new external tennis court
All these notices say Turret Farm. Turret House is never mentioned.
-
Hi Everyone,
I have been DNA mining! Huge success. I have just received a reply form one of those people re Sophie Glbert.
The lady has passed on a complete history of these people and they definitely lived at The Turret House on the farm on Blarney Estate.
The fist occupant from this family was the Estate Manager and he is the gt grandparent of the DNA match. She said that the house was a lovely house and the they visited her Grandparents there.
She also said that her Gt Grandparent was responsible for managing the whole of the Blarney Castle Estate , one of the largest in Ireland.
So what we are seeing is probably the result of those up grades Sinann found. The house is on Turret Farm a distance from the the Blarney Castle site but on that estate.
I have also found a document stating that those Gt Grandparents were at Turret House.
The DNA lady is Sophie's granddaughter.
I will get back to her and ask her if she could describe the house a bit for us. Hopefully ...yes. and then send her a pic that we have that looks like the correct one.
It will be interesting to see what she says.
Essnell
-
Hi everyone .. quick Question...... To whom do I apply for an Irish Dearth Certificate?
I have one for Sarah Gilbert found on the civil records search. The age and birth year match. I would like to check it further as the rec only has year and place of death. She died 1954 age 93 born 1861. Never married.
Still waiting to hear back from the DNA match lady.
I now have another one to chase.
Essnell
-
You look at it here for free
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1954/04455/4166546.pdf
-
Hi mckha489,
Great ! Got a screen shot so all good there. Thank you for the link. another one sorted. ;D
Essnell
-
Hi Everyone,
I am hoping that one of you might be able to estimate or know what period of time The Townland Map I found via the link below would be?
The link opens to show the Ballygrohan Townland in color like on a street map but if one looks to the left there is a layer stack and clicking that the map becomes a grey-scale image of a much older map.
https://arcg.is/1yDSuz2
This map shows the Turret Farm House quite clearly. There are no recent additions so it's easily seen which would have been the main house first there back in the 1850's or earlier.
It is definitely on the Blarney Castle Estate.
Thought that this might be of interest to everyone.
Additional: Re Florence Harriet Gilbert. . the current information from the wedding of Emily Gilbert - earlier posted - has her father as Charles George Gilbert.
I have found his marriage 2oth September 1904 and his father is stated as Mark Gilbert, Game Keeper .
Charles George Gilbert was married to Florence Annie Gladsy and her father George Edward Glasby was a Land Steward.
It all makes sense. I still need to get the birth for Florence Harriet but I think she is their daughter - so a cousin to Emily and Sophey and Sarah.
more if and when.....
Essnell.
Addit: Florence born 1st July, Reg 8th July Leopardstown, Dublin. Father George Gilbet, Mother Florence Annie .
Gladsby.
Essnell
-
I have found his marriage 2oth September 1904 and his father is stated as Mark Gilbert, Game Keeper .
See reply #12
-
The link opens to show the Ballygrohan Townland in color like on a street map but if one looks to the left there is a layer stack and clicking that the map becomes a grey-scale image of a much older map.
https://arcg.is/1yDSuz2
-
Hi Kiltaglassan, I must have bad eyesight , to have not seen that. Probably too intent on Sophie. etc. but I have been pushed to re-look as I have a DNA match that says she married John Harris . now that all upended things a bit because Charles George Gilbert came up in searches so .... yes the father was Charles Gilbert---Mark and Harriet's last child so --- that makes Florence, Emily's cousin........ in digging through that I discovered her siblings.:
Lucy 1905: Charles 1908; Florence 1912; Margaret 1914.
Do not think there were any others.
I have no idea why he used George at times as his name or part of it.
Now that map: That image is the one I was asking about. What era would that be from? It's obviously well before the Google ones that are on here . My estimate is early 1850's.at least.
Thanks for helping yet again.
Essnell
-
Now that map: That image is the one I was asking about. What era would that be from?
6 Inch Colour (1829-1841)
Tailte Éireann (OSi)
-
Hi Kiltaglassan
Thank you for the map image. Map Genie is very clever.
I have another simple question...... was a Census taken in Ireland in 1881. I know there was such in England.
Reason I am asking is because I have another Gilbert Person who left Ireland to go to England about 1880. I cannot find him on the English Census for 1881. I am trying to pinpoint when he left Ireland. After that I have his marriage in England and his children etc.
Maybe the Irish Census was taken in a different year.
Thanks for any information.
Essnell
Addit Just found two news paper mentions of this chap one 1892 and then 1894. but that's 10yrs down the the track for him but it gives me an idea of where he was living at that time. Still nothing in 1881.
Essnell
-
I have another simple question...... was a Census taken in Ireland in 1881. I know there was such in England.
Yes, but it no longer exists.
It was pulped during the First World War, probably because of the paper shortage.
See http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/help/history.html
-
Hi Kiltaglassan,
Oh dear... so that giggers my idea. well i suppose they had to do it. what about 1861 and 1871. Probably sufferd the same fate...???
but i do have this: it's off a search that is on Family search.
so this fellow
/////// Thomas Hart Gilbert was born in 1859.
The search details say this
///////
Census in Clogheen Tipperary
with parents age 9...
1868
Census in Clogheen rest of family left
1869
Clogheen Tipperary.
Census 1873 Clogheen Tipperary
Holmes Grandparents
1874 left estate
Shanbally [I believe this was Shanbally Castle Estate]
Joined Inland Revenue 1878 ///////
Why would those odd dates be quoted under "Census" and how and where would I be able to validate this information. Could this refer to electoral Rolls but i doubt it as it involves at first a child.
Essnell
-
what about 1861 and 1871. Probably sufferd the same fate...???
Did you read the link attached in reply #41?
They were destroyed shortly after the censuses were taken.
-
Okay, No I hadn't . I had to go out for a few hours and forgot to when I got back... my apologies.
However that still does not explain what those odd dates represent. Any ideas anyone??
Thank you Essnell :)
-
so this fellow
/////// Thomas Hart Gilbert was born in 1859.
The search details say this
///////
Census in Clogheen Tipperary
with parents age 9...
1868
Census in Clogheen rest of family left
1869
Clogheen Tipperary.
Census 1873 Clogheen Tipperary
Holmes Grandparents
Essnell,
Where are you obtaining this information?
Can you please attach the relevant links.
-
Hi Kiltaglassan, The info is off My Heritage and a family tree actually a couple of those. The link below is to one of those.
But I was able to view their Family Search link yesterday but can't get to it now. That has similar info posted by one of the younger generations. However there is little else posted such as birth date marriage and death all of which I have documents for. I didn't add anything at the time.
There is a private story to all of this which is annoying as none of it can be proven. something like an NPE. that is why I was after those Census .
https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-1-411057201-1-501131/thomas-hart-gilbert-in-myheritage-family-trees
maybe it would help if i Pm you what I know of the story.
Thanks again Essnell
-
https://www.myheritage.com/research/record-1-411057201-1-501131/thomas-hart-gilbert-in-myheritage-family-trees
maybe it would help if i Pm you what I know of the story.
I don't have access to the subscription site MyHeritage.
.....and it's probably better if you keep all your data on this thread, and don't use a PM ( which restricts others from seeing your data).
-
I don't have access to the subscription site MyHeritage.
.....and it's probably better if you keep all your data on this thread, and don't use a PM ( which restricts others from seeing your data).
I don't have a subscription to My Hertiage either so I can't see that information. I did find Thomas Hart Gilbert in several records on Family Search but looking at the attached family tree(s) I don't see those census details.
Which brings me to the census records listed- 1868, 1869, 1873. All nonsense! The Irish Census was taken every ten years- for example, 1861, 1871, 1881, 1891, etc. I'm not sure how My Heritage works when you are putting sources into a family tree but most sites have a drop-down menu where you have a variety of choices. Possibly the tree owner had put in the year of an event then selected census in error? (trying to given them the benefit of the doubt) Have you tried sending a message to that person to get clarification?
It is usually better to keep everything on one thread so everyone can see what's been found so far. HOWEVER, there are also cases where living people are involved or a poster does not wish to post something online and it's entirely up to them.
I've still been following this thread since it was so interesting but haven't posted on it recently. Essnell, if you need help with anything feel free to PM me.
-
find my past
Sophey born 1898 census of 1901
Sophy born 1899 census of 1911
married Edward Kingston is is down as Sophia
cannot find a birth but census says she was born in Tipperary on census
http://www.findmypast.co.uk
-
Sophey born 1898 census of 1901
Sophy born 1899 census of 1911
............................
cannot find a birth but census says she was born in Tipperary on census
Already mentioned by aghadowey at reply #15
-
Kiltaglassan and aghadowey,
Thank you both for replies.
First where I found this printed as set out above minus the "////" ..... it was through MyHeritage and a tree that is belonging to a relative of Thomas. Initially I was able to access the Family Search data Base that allows one to see their records for the chosen person. It also allows one to add information or suggest alternative information with supporting source information. So what I posted is what was on there. not MyHeritage
I have not got back to that point since, but the information was added by someone with an account on there. It's free. There is no way that the dates can be verified , unless you do bit of date matching, know Thomas's age at those dates etc.
For me they do relate but why were they posted as Census and not Residence. I know that putting that up under Census is silly to say the least.
The reason why they relate is because of a private family story which at this point in time is still a family hand-me-down story un-validated.
Unfortunately those vanished Census Records would have helped with that if they showed where Thomas was at a particular time and with whom. :(
Eventually Thomas moved to England and joined the Inland Revenue and worked with them all his life.
I have not tried to contact the person as there is so little information on there other than this list of dates and places he was. Not even his death information.
Yes this is now touching on living people because it's their past.
aghadowey. thanks for the pm offer.. will do .
Essnell
-
Hi kiltaglassan,
Thank you for the latest document re Wilfred. Yes that would be Wilfred from this family. Wilfred had a son Fred... k and I have corresponded with him for a number of years. He has not replied to my messages for some time so it's possible he has passed on, same as his wife. His children are in the USA.
So now we are at living people era.
Thank you
Essnell.
-
Hi Everyone,
Essnell again..... i decided to try contacting the owner of the records where those Census were posted. Hope i get a favourable reply and it helps.
Also now adding to earlier memebers of this family and have a person named David Gilbert who appears to have a connection to the Gilbert people in both Moor Crichel, Dorset and Clogheen Tippereary . I have tried to see if he was a son to any of the others i know about. not successful so far.
What know : Born C 1840 Woodbridge.
Married Sarah [Sally] Manning in 1872.
Died in Clogheen Tipperary 1890.
David and Sarah have ten children. The youngest in 1891 was 7months old named William Gilbert......
and he was born in Clogheen 1890.
How long they were in Clogheen I am not sure but some time between 1886 and 1890. David died in 1890 in Clogheen.
Sarah[Sally] returns to York by 1891 with baby William and her other children.
Sarah {Sally} died 1931in York 4th Jan. Probate granted 14th February to Ada he youngest Daughter.
I am hoping to see if this family belong anywhere within the extended Gilbert 's from Moor Crichell, Dorset.
thanks for any ideas or suggestions .
Essnell.
-
I'm still working on the Gilbert family and have lots of bits and pieces to send you but it doesn't look like David Gilbert is related.
When he died 25 May 1890 (Irish Genealogy have wrong link to registration so I had to search manually) it was in Cahir Barracks which comes under Clogheen registration district. Son Ernest died a few days later and is the next death registered. David is described as Army pensioner.
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/deaths_returns/deaths_1890/06086/4736652.pdf
Son William was born in Sept.1890 also at Cahir Barracks-
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/files/civil/birth_returns/births_1890/02406/1897298.pdf
-
Hi aghadowey,
Thank you for the info on David and Ernst. I will file them away as "known but not related".
Question:- Was there a Barracks anywhere in Dorset about 1870 and would Sally have received a pension . The 1891 Census has her as "living on own means".
The rest of this lot are slowly working out, including a David who is part of the family. More on that when I have it all sorted.
Thank you again,
Essnell.
-
I think there's a bit of confusion about this David Gilbert. Seems he married J/M 1872 in Woodbridge reg. dist. which is Suffolk. Tree on Ancestry (I can't see full details) says born Suffolk and died Cork. Marriage registration should list father's name and occupation if information was given but not sure if available anywhere online.
-
I agree about the confusion. Originally I had David with Sarah [Sally] Manning married in 1872 Woodbridge.
Then I found a reference to them being in Moor Crichel, Dorset in 1871. I found all their children including William and then that brought up Clogheen.
Then the death of David in 1890 also in Clogheen. Then Sara is back in York in 1872. I could not find this David's father or his birth. However he may have been born in 1840 which makes him about 32 when he married.
I thought he may have been a son of one of the brothers related to Mark Gilbert. Mark actually has a brother David who was born in 1828. This one never left Dorset. He married Bethia Isaacs in 1848. and they had about ten children So he isn't an issue.
It's the other one. I am going to cheeck something ..... be back aasap
Essnell.
-
Hello Again ..... I am back..... I checked all the parish records on FindMyPast for David born 1840 . Not a lot but enough to help --possibly. interestingly it also had Census information included in the 1,700 odd matches.
1851 Census Mum Dad and 3 boys last is David age 11. and birth place matches. this is the only one that makes any sense.
Then in 1871 there was an entry for David and Sarah as found earlier for Dorset. However this is not our couple. Sarah is from Dorset not Uffley as earlier noted. This was another bit that added to the confusion.
I need to check Sara's maiden name and if that is not manning then we know that the second David is from another Gilbert family. :-\
Thanks everyone for all the helpand interest again .
Essnell