RootsChat.Com
General => Technical Help => Topic started by: wilcoxon on Tuesday 08 April 25 15:31 BST (UK)
-
Does Thunderbird delete emails after a certain time or is there a limit of how many you can store.
Yesterday for some reason I lost a lot, and I mean a lot of emails from My BT account.
At that time they were not on Thunderbird either.
Today they are back on TB, but not on BT. I have lost a lot of important information as well as insurance and other things .
I really don`t understand as I didn`t delete them permanently.
Has anyone got any ideas of what`s gone on .
Thanks.
-
i've used Thunderbird for years. I know after you delete emails they are deleted after some time. I think you can set the time yourself, can't remember how to do it now, but suggest you go to Help at the top of an email.
In the case of Insurances, etc. I have files under My Documents and I just save the emails to those files. I then delete them from Thunderbird but they stay in the files.
-
It will depend on how you have set up Thunderbird to access your BT email account.
Using a POP3 account means Thunderbird will download from the BT email server and delete it from there once confirmed the download is successful.
An IMAP set up allows a number of devices to access the same email account and view all emails, sent and received.
If things are going missing and then coming back again, it looks like a synchronisation issue with Thunderbird and the BT email server.
Also check the account settings in Thunderbird - make sure "Don't delete any messages" is checked in the Disk Space section for the BT email account.
-
It will depend on how you have set up Thunderbird to access your BT email account.
Using a POP3 account means Thunderbird will download from the BT email server and delete it from there once confirmed the download is successful.
An IMAP set up allows a number of devices to access the same email account and view all emails, sent and received.
If things are going missing and then coming back again, it looks like a synchronisation issue with Thunderbird and the BT email server.
Also check the account settings in Thunderbird - make sure "Don't delete any messages" is checked in the Disk Space section for the BT email account.
Oh my goodness I wish I knew all that before. So my emails have gone from BT because I downloaded TB.
It was POP 3. That`s no good. It seems I am stuck with TB now unless there is an alternative but I can`t see how I can use another programme if the Emails have gone. Oh Dear,
I have set .Leave messages on server for 750 days, it was on 14.
Unchecked Delete messages . Not too sure about Clear Cache, what is that ?
Also I can`t see anything about attaching JPG , only word docs and PDF.
Is that right.
I only have TB and BT on my laptop for now and BT only has 11 emails,
what will happen to the BT email on my laptop, desktop and tablet, will it continue as before.
I have Windows Live Mail 2012 on my desktop, which hasn`t lost all of the emails, I know where I am with that, but I suppose it is a bit outdated now.
Would you suggest an alternative for that in the future .
I don`t really like the BT set up on the tablet.
Is there any way of retrieving the deleted emails ?
So many questions. Some times I feel as if it is all beyond me and at my age it`s just to much ;)
At the moment I am feeling a bit sick. Thanks anyway.
-
I use Mozbackup to regularly and often backup all my mail, going back over 15 years.
Zaph.
-
edited: I just re-read your post and most of this below the line might not apply. You say the messages are back on Thunderbird but not on BT, since you are using POP3.
You could always email them to yourself if you want them back on BT. But as LizzieW says, you should also download them to your device into a folder like Documents. Or print them out if they are important.
-----
Did you look in the Trash folder in Thunderbird?
I don't live in the UK, so I know nothing about BT email, so the next few questions may not be helpful.
Did you look in the trash folder for BT on the tablet?
Can you, or someone you trust, access BT email through a web browser, like you can with gmail.com? It looks like it might be at email.bt.com - I don't know, I only just Googled it now.
If so, look in the trash folder there.
In all of those cases, if you find what you are looking for, there should be an option to move the messages back to the Inbox or whatever other folder you had them in. In Thunderbird you just drag the message from Trash to Inbox.
gmail doesn't delete trash until 30 days are passed. I don't know what BT does.
-----
after re-reading - I still suggest looking at the trash files on BT, either by using the tablet or by going directly to their email site in a browser.
-
The main point about this discussion is to understand that webmail (e.g. BT) and email clients (whether Thunderbird, gmail or whatever) are only for accessing and sending emails.
They have in and out/sent boxes which will store messages for a while but that's no different, logically, from the mat or cage behind the door with a letter box in it. They are not designed for long term storage.
Any messages which one wishes to keep for future reference should be stored in a structured system like any other files.
-
Thank you.
It seems all is not lost.
I have had Windows Live mail on my desktop since the days of XP. I really like it.
When I got the laptop (second hand) a couple of months ago it was never intended to be for my main use, just something to take away with me to keep up with things.
Windows didn`t seem to have an email programme I could find for the laptop so that`s why I downloaded Thunderbird.
It has totally emptied my BT mailbox and downloaded everything that was there. Inbox and deleted messages - the lot.
I ended up with hundreds of deleted emails which had stayed on BT.
I have spent quite a few hours on Thunderbird going through them all manually and deleting those I really don`t want.
Many were multiple notifications of replies from Rootchat :D and emails from Ebay etc.
Then I started on Outlook on the desktop. Thankfully everything there was unaffected, I had folders for various people / subjects and they were still there. Some I had forgotten about. There are some from 2012 when I first started an interest in History.
I have been playing with both Thunderbird and Outlook and it seems that when an email comes to me through from BT it goes to both of them.
I deleted the unwanted ones permanently and they were removed from BT as well.
I think I need to keep a weekly check on them all. ;)
I also found all previous emails from quite a while ago that had been saved to a folder when I had my desktop updated to 10. The shop I took it to did that for me. I never was about to find them till recently. ;D
I now want to know how do I save emails to a folder myself on my hard drive or even a memory stick.
Thank again.
-
There is a very active TB support forum, that has lots of people with good technical experience.
Zaph
-
Thank you.
It seems all is not lost.
I have had Windows Live mail on my desktop since the days of XP. I really like it.
When I got the laptop (second hand) a couple of months ago it was never intended to be for my main use, just something to take away with me to keep up with things.
Windows didn`t seem to have an email programme I could find for the laptop so that`s why I downloaded Thunderbird.
It has totally emptied my BT mailbox and downloaded everything that was there. Inbox and deleted messages - the lot.
I ended up with hundreds of deleted emails which had stayed on BT.
I have spent quite a few hours on Thunderbird going through them all manually and deleting those I really don`t want.
Many were multiple notifications of replies from Rootchat :D and emails from Ebay etc.
Then I started on Outlook on the desktop. Thankfully everything there was unaffected, I had folders for various people / subjects and they were still there. Some I had forgotten about. There are some from 2012 when I first started an interest in History.
I have been playing with both Thunderbird and Outlook and it seems that when an email comes to me through from BT it goes to both of them.
I deleted the unwanted ones permanently and they were removed from BT as well.
I think I need to keep a weekly check on them all. ;)
I also found all previous emails from quite a while ago that had been saved to a folder when I had my desktop updated to 10. The shop I took it to did that for me. I never was about to find them till recently. ;D
I now want to know how do I save emails to a folder myself on my hard drive or even a memory stick.
Thank again.
I have been using Outlook on a Windows desktop since at least 1999 (I ordered some CDs from Amazon in October of that year and still have the email) and have all my emails stored in a large folder structure; I tend to file or delete new emails once a week or have a daily automated backup system. New emails are downloaded to Outlook whenever I open it and removed from the mail server at the same time.
There is only one* file that needs backing up:
C:\Users\<Username>\Appdata\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Outlook.pst
*Mine got too large so I created another, so in my casee are two files.
The pst file (or files) can be copied into the same folder on another machine and will immediately work with a local Outlook installation there; I do this when I travel with a laptop and then just copy them back to my desktop when I return, replacing the old ones.
That system has served me well and I see no reason to change it.
-
There is only one* file that needs backing up:
C:\Users\<Username>\Appdata\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Outlook.pst
Goodness I would never had found that. But, I tried and got as far as Outlook and the next folder was empty.
To be honest I`m not that confident anyway.
I would have to be sure I `m only copying and that there is no danger of losing them
-
There is only one* file that needs backing up:
C:\Users\<Username>\Appdata\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Outlook.pst
Goodness I would never had found that. But, I tried and got as far as Outlook and the next folder was empty.
To be honest I`m not that confident anyway.
I would have to be sure I `m only copying and that there is no danger of losing them
Copy instead of move is easy:
Right button -> Copy
Right button -> Paste
I don't know why the Outlook folder was empty though; there should be three folders and a few other files in it. Must have the wrong path somehow or possibly permissions are set to "hidden".
-
To save important emails to folders, I open the email, click on File at the top left hand corner and "Save As", then just choose the file/folder you want the email to go to. I have my files in My Documents. I have files for Orders/Despatched/Completed, Tradespeople, Holidays, Investments etc. so I never lose an email. Once you've saved an email, you can delete it from Thunderbird.
My husband uses Outlook but I don't like that. I prefer less Microsoft whenever possible.
-
While we are no closer to determining the cause of the initial problems, I think the OP needs to make some decisions.
1. How they wish to access email on an ongoing basis – webmail or email client
2. If using an email client, how they wish to set this up – pop or imap
3. Make sure webmail and email clients have correct retention policies for your needs
4. Back it up – whether that is using a manual drag and drop on individual emails to a local folder, or Outlook/Thunderbird inbuilt backup process, or something else, make at least one other copy of the most important stuff that you cannot afford to lose
5. Get used to updating your backup whenever there is a change/daily/weekly/monthly and regularly check that the backup can still be accessed
Before making any changes, I would suggest looking at step 4 above as a priority.
-
While we are no closer to determining the cause of the initial problems, I think the OP needs to make some decisions.
1. How they wish to access email on an ongoing basis – webmail or email client
2. If using an email client, how they wish to set this up – pop or imap
3. Make sure webmail and email clients have correct retention policies for your needs
4. Back it up – whether that is using a manual drag and drop on individual emails to a local folder, or Outlook/Thunderbird inbuilt backup process, or something else, make at least one other copy of the most important stuff that you cannot afford to lose
5. Get used to updating your backup whenever there is a change/daily/weekly/monthly and regularly check that the backup can still be accessed
Before making any changes, I would suggest looking at step 4 above as a priority.
I couldn't agree more about backup being the most important step for any important data.
Funnily enough my 12-year old (I still have the online order email from 2013!) backup system (a Buffalo NAS server with two mirrored disks) packed up on Sunday so I lost all of my most recent backups and frantically updated a set of my offline backups, which were at least six months old.
My backup schedule is an automatic daily incremental backup of all changed files and then weekly or monthly automated full backups of important folders. It may seem a bit over the top, but I'm a bit of a geek about that sort of thing.
A new Synology NAS server is on its way!
-
Interestingly, when my laptop packed up and I found my external drive hadn't been working either, once the laptop was up and running again and I downloaded Thunderbird, all the last approx 3 months of emails downloaded as well into Deleted!
-
Farmeroman
there is only one* file that needs backing up:
C:\Users\<Username>\Appdata\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Outlook.pst
I don't know why the Outlook folder was empty though; there should be three folders and a few other files in it. Must have the wrong path somehow or possibly permissions are set to "hidden".
Perhaps there is nothing there because I don`t use Outlook, I use Windows Live mail 2012.
I can`t find anything hidden in files for that, so am stuck on that .
The emails that were backed up to my Desktop are from when I had my PC updated to W10, they go back to 2015 and open with Windows Live 2012.
They are in a folder saved in Documents and it`s pretty hard to locate the right one, but it is "Storage Folder" and everything is there. I guess I could save that to a memory stick in case they are needed. Anything from 2023 to now hasn`t been backed up and I don`t know how to do it.
This is my Desktop.
AngusMcCoatup.
I have no idea what the difference is between webmail or email client.
I wouldn`t know the difference between pop or imap.
I apologise but it`s way out of my depth.
Thunderbird on Laptop.
Even though it downloaded all the incoming and deleted emails from BT there is nothing that was in my folders on Windows Live. Would that be because it`s another programme ?
I can`t see any obvious way to back up Thunderbird on the programme itself. Neither on Windows Live.
I looked at installing Thunderbird on my desktop as well but I really don`t understand it at all.
So to cut a long story short I still can`t see how to export / back up emails in bulk.
I will give saving to my Desktop a go, that seems to be the easiest for now.
Thanks everyone for your patience and I apologise for seeming so dumb. :-[
I am much better if finding John Jones, son of John Jones and Mary Jones in Bala than this . ;)
-
One question, why do you need to back up your emails in bulk. Surely you only need to save important ones to your documents.
-
The problem with non-microsoft software is that it tends to conscientiously use a different piece of jargon for the same thing, so the word 'backup' does not appear on Thunderbird's menus. If I remember correctly 'Archive' just files the older emails separately but still within Thunderbird. You might find 'export' does what you want, just remember to put the resulting file somewhere you can find it, and repeat the process at intervals. On my Thunderbird, archive is on the Message menu and export is on the Tools menu but your copy will be more uptodate so they may have been re-arranged!
Having said that, I let Windows (10) backup my emails etc. using 'Backup using File History' (which it offers as an alternative to 'back up files to Onedrive') You have the option to add a folder, so you just tell it to back up your thunderbird profile which can be found at C:\Users\User\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles . There may be a choice of profiles - I seem to be backing up the one with a current date.
-
Webmail – using a browser (such as IE, Chrome, Edge, Opera, Firefox) to logon to your email providers’ website to access emails. Emails are not stored on the device you are using to access the email server. Storage space may be limited and retention policies (how long emails will stay on the server before being deleted) may be in place.
Email Client – using dedicated software (such as Outlook, Thunderbird) to access the email provider server. Emails are downloaded and stored locally on the device you are using to access the email server.
Email clients are usually configured in one of two ways:
POP – once an email has been downloaded to a device during the "Check for new emails" process, the email is deleted from the email server. Useful for situations where there is only one device accessing the email account.
IMAP – synchronises one email account over multiple devices. For example, a user could ask Thunderbird to check for new emails on their PC before heading out. Seeing an email of interest, they could then access the emails again on their phone on the train. Because Thunderbird was configured for IMAP access, when the phone connects to the email server, it will see a difference in the messages that have already been downloaded and sync them so that the phone and Thunderbird remain consistent. If the user then decides the email wasn’t that important after all and deletes it on the phone, the next time Thunderbird is asked to connect to the email server, it will also delete that same message from the Thunderbird inbox.
Using an email client, the retention polices can be tailored to your own needs as the messages are stored locally – just make sure you remember to configure that correctly.
Thunderbird has a built-in backup process. Select Tools option from the menu and then Export. Thunderbird will offer to backup accounts, messages and the address book to a single ZIP file by clicking on the Export button. This ZIP file should be backed up but can also be copied to a new device and by using the Import function, the accounts and messages can be restored. Note the warning message displayed during the export phase – if you have emails going back to 1998 with loads of attachments, you may go exceed the 2GB limit in which case you may need to do things using a more manual process or as suggested in #4 using third party backup software.
-
Farmeroman
there is only one* file that needs backing up:
C:\Users\<Username>\Appdata\Local\Microsoft\Outlook\Outlook.pst
I don't know why the Outlook folder was empty though; there should be three folders and a few other files in it. Must have the wrong path somehow or possibly permissions are set to "hidden".
Perhaps there is nothing there because I don`t use Outlook, I use Windows Live mail 2012.
I can`t find anything hidden in files for that, so am stuck on that .
The emails that were backed up to my Desktop are from when I had my PC updated to W10, they go back to 2015 and open with Windows Live 2012.
Ah, you mentioned Outlook on your desktop at one point so I was referring to that. I don't use Windows Live mail or Thunderbird so I can't help you there.
-
One question, why do you need to back up your emails in bulk. Surely you only need to save important ones to your documents.
Personally I like to keep almost everything. I delete obvious junk and then file every other email (in- and out-going) in a file structure similar to that in my documents folder. That way I can always use the Outlook search feature to find anything of interest - for instance my wife recently asked me when and where we stayed in Langkawi some years ago - instant answer: the Pelangi Beach Resort in 2003. No it's not "important", but it's interesting (to me at least) and storage is so cheap and backup is so simple why not keep it just in case? Saving emails into the documents folder sounds a bit time consuming and messy to me.
FWIW I don't use webmail or cloud storage; I don't trust anyone else with my data, either from a security point of view and/or I don't trust them not to misuse my data, use it for advertising, etc. (yes Google, Apple, Microsoft I'm talking about you). For emails I've always used Outlook and stored my emails locally; I also have my own domain for emails so I have several email addresses that I use for different things.
Anyway, each to their own, etc.
-
As a test I have managed to save some emails from Windows Live desktop to a stick and opened them on the laptop.
They were as Thunderbird documents ? Anyway I could open them with Thunderbird email so that`s OK. I tried to save them but couldn`t so forwarded them to myself and there they were.
I do like to keep things. I did a lot of research for an online Cemetery website , but sadly the owner has died and it`s gone forever.
I do have the initial research on my PC but I also have the final version and images I sent to the website on an email.
I have been able to just forward it on to another local History group.
I also found emails from 2015 from my first visit to Switzerland, I didn`t take many photos but my cousin who has now passed away did, she sent them to me and they are still there along with her messages. Nice memories.