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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: Roberta Wilkie on Saturday 05 April 25 22:21 BST (UK)
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Looking for parents of Duncan Campbell born about 1776 in Perthshire. Married Margaret Campbell 1795 in Blair Atholl, Perthshire. They both are buried in Chalmers Presbyterian Cemetery in Haldimand Co. Ontario Canada.Any information on either Campbell family would be great. Thanks
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Hello
The marriage gives Duncan as of Dalnasoidall and there seems to be only only one baptism at Blair Atholl
Duncan 6/9th Feb 1772 of Drumanagich at Balir Atholl s of John Campbell and Ann McDonald.
There is a Christian with the same parents 17/20 May 1764 of Drumnabeachin
The only marriage I can see is at Moulin nr Blair Atholl 7 Aug 1755 . Son William 23.7.1756.
John of Drumanagich bapt 17/19.6.1737 s of Colin Campbell and Christian Graham
And they too married at Moulin 16.3.1733.
There are a couple of options for Margaret Campbell and I'm not confident enough of the area to say which is the most likely.
Ciderdrinker
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Looks likely that the marriage was at Fortingall and banns at Blair Atholl but you would need to check the records.
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
DUNCAN CAMPBELL to MARGARET CAMPBELL
20/05/1795 Blair Atholl
DUNCAN CAMPBELL to MARGARET CAMPBELL
23/05/1795 Fortingall
Several possible children father Duncan but no Margaret Campbell's, only one that seems possible but no mothers surname.
JANET CAMPBELL
DUNCAN CAMPBELL/MARGARET
29/05/1796 Fortingall
Fortingall, Perthshire is 20 miles SW of Blair Atholl, Perthshire
Colin
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Still looking for Duncan and Margaret Campbell. Married 23/05/1795 in Blair Atholl. Had a daughter Elizabeth Catherine b. around 1810. Immigrated to Haldimand Co. Ontario around 1818. Any information about either Campbell Family would be great. Thanks
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This is NOT the Duncan Campbell and Margaret Campbell of the Blair Atholl/Fortingall marriage.
This is Duncan Campbell of Dull, Perthshire and wife Margaret McNaughton.
There is no marriage recorded in ScotlandsPeople/OPR in Dull/Perthshire. Missing or untranscribed. There is a marriage in Kilmonivaig Inverness-shire in 1804 that could be them.
They had 7 children recorded in Pitkerril, in the Braes of Foss, Parish of Dull, Perthshire.
Elizabeth 1811
Duncan 1813
Archibald 1815
Jean/Jane 1817
Peter 1819
Hugh 1820
Margaret 1824
Pikerril is here:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.2&lat=56.68224&lon=-4.03213&layers=257s&b=1&o=100 (https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.2&lat=56.68224&lon=-4.03213&layers=257s&b=1&o=100)
100% sure.
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The marriage gives Duncan as of Dalnasoidall
Could that be Dalnaspidall? In the parish of Blair Atholl https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NN6473
The only marriage I can see is at Moulin nr Blair Atholl
Moulin is the next-door parish to Blair Atholl. (Pitlochry is in the parish of Moulin.) https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NN9459
Looks likely that the marriage was at Fortingall and banns at Blair Atholl but you would need to check the records.
Not at, but in the parish of Fortingall and in the parish of Blair Atholl - the banns would have been called in both parish kirks (which is why there are two records of the proclamation) but the wedding would have been held in the bride's parents' home, of, if she had no parents or was marrying a long way from home, in the manse or in her employer's home.
Fortingall, Perthshire is 20 miles SW of Blair Atholl, Perthshire
The village of Fortingall is about 20 miles as the crow flies or 30 miles by road from the village of Blair Atholl, depending which road you take. The parish of Fortingall is right next to, and has a mutual boundary with, the parish of Blair Atholl.
Both the parish of Blair Atholl (312 square miles/808 square km) and the parish of Fortingall (703 square miles/1820 square km) are exceptionally large - Blair Atholl is 30 miles/50 km in length and Fortingall 40 miles/65 kilometres. It would, however, be possible for someone living in the parish of Blair Atholl to be only a few hundred metres from someone living in the parish of Fortingall.
See https://maps.nls.uk/view/74400160, which shows the point where the parishes of Blair Atholl, Fortingall and Dull meet between Loch Tummel and Loch Rannoch. If you zoom in you will see Pitcurril above the U of Dull. I have had a quick but so far unsuccessful look for Drumanagich and Drumnabeachin but you might want to have a longer look for yourselves.
Pitcurril no longer exists, except as the outline of some ruins. It was in what is now forest. Go to https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.8&lat=56.68245&lon=-4.03258&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100 and slide the blue circle at lower left to change between the map surveyed in 1861 and the satellite view.
See also https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/nn7556
There is a marriage in Kilmonivaig Inverness-shire
Fort William is partly in the parish of Kilmonivaig, as is Spean Bridge. It too is a very large parish, and as far as I can see it doesn't have a mutual boundary with either Fortingall or Blair Atholl (or even with anywhere else in Perthshire) though I haven't looked at all the maps. It is separated from them by an extensive tract of mountains and by Rannoch Moor.
Duncan Campbell of Dull
Duncan 6/9th Feb 1772 of Drumanagich at Balir Atholl
There is a Christian with the same parents 17/20 May 1764 of Drumnabeachin
Do the originals actually use the word 'of' or do they say 'in'? The distinction is very important. If someone is named in an 18th century documents as 'of' somewhere, this specifically means that they or their father owned the place referred to, and that means that it will be worth looking for sasines or other records relating to land ownership. If the original says 'in', this means that they were tenants rather than owners and they will only be mentioned in land records if the rental records of the estate have survived.
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On Duncan Campbells grave stone it says "native of Perthshire". On Scotland Marriages 1561-1910 just says 20 May 1795 Blair Atholl, Perthshire,Scotland. Found actual marriage record for Blair Atholl for Duncan Campbell in Dalinspidail & Marg. Campbell in Craggancur(?) in parish of Fortingale. 20 May. Was hard to read. Am hoping to find out more about the families like parents and siblings.
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On Duncan Campbells grave stone it says "native of Perthshire". On Scotland Marriages 1561-1910 just says 20 May 1795 Blair Atholl, Perthshire,Scotland. Found actual marriage record for Blair Atholl for Duncan Campbell in Dalinspidail & Marg. Campbell in Craggancur(?) in parish of Fortingale. 20 May. Was hard to read. Am hoping to find out more about the families like parents and siblings.
You are looking at an unrelated marriage. You are incorrect.
The family that went to Haldimand is from Pitkerril, Dull.
Margaret's last name was McNaughton.
Their son Hugh born 1820 married Catherine McGregor.
When I said 100% sure, I meant it, as I went through the records on Ancestry/ScotlandsPeople. There is no record of Margaret's last name being recorded as 'Campbell'. The 1795 marriage is too early for the children born.
Duncan, Margaret are living with/next to their son Hugh in the 1861 census at Walpole. Hugh is recorded as being born in Scotland throughout each census. This means they did not come in 1818, but later after all the children I listed were born.
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Roberta Wilkie, are you descended from the couple buried in Chalmers Presbyterian Cemetery?
If so, then what evidence do you have to suggest that Margaret's maiden surname was also Campbell rather than MacNaughton?
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This is a difficult family to place, as they are not listed in Donald Whyte's Immigration books.
Hugh's death record in 1895 at Wentworth does not list parents names. The Wentworth certificate may belong to a different Hugh though.
It is unclear if the entire family came over, or if Hugh came over just with his parents.
There is a marriage of a Hugh Campbell and Catherine McGregor in 1845 in Weem/Fortingall, but this belongs to another family. Unclear if Hugh married prior to coming over or in Ontario.
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Daughter Elizabeth born 1811 married John Wilkie and resided at Walpole in the 1851 Census together with their children.
Her brother Archibald, born 1815 lived next to them with his wife Sarah Jane Cameron of Ross-shire and their children. He is still there in the 1861 census with the Wilkes near by. In1867 he moves on to Romney, Kent for the 1871/81/91 census. He is listed as being from Perthshire on the Kent land record. He died 12 JUN 1900 in Caldwell, Missaukee, Michigan, USA, where he was living with his youngest daughter's family in the 1900 census.
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There is a Duncan born 1813 working as a trader and a Peter born 1819 working as a bailiff in nearby Cayuga in the 1851 Census, both married. Unclear if these are the corresponding children.
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Yes am DNA proven to John Wilkie and Elizabeth Campbell. Have public tree on Ancestry. Duncan and Margaret are her parents all being buried in Chalmbers Cemetary. Have no evidence other than the marriage of 20 May 1795 in Blair Atholl. Trying to find the birth records? Also have not found anything on John Wilkie from Aberdeenshire? Am making a trip to Scotland next week and would be nice to find out where I originated from.Thanks so much for the help! Roberta Wilkie
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The family of Duncan Campbell and Margaret McNaughton.
Throth may have more info on possible siblings at Pitkerril - but the naming pattern is off for the family he has listed on his site, so I do not think they are related.
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Yes am DNA proven to John Wilkie and Elizabeth Campbell. Have public tree on Ancestry. Duncan and Margaret are her parents all being buried in Chalmbers Cemetary. Have no evidence other than the marriage of 20 May 1795 in Blair Atholl. Trying to find the birth records? Also have not found anything on John Wilkie from Aberdeenshire? Am making a trip to Scotland next week and would be nice to find out where I originated from.Thanks so much for the help! Roberta Wilkie
I think you must forget about the 1795 marriage in Blair Atholl, because, as kmaleski has demonstrated, these are not your Duncan Campbell and Margaret MacNaughton.
You need to accept that the record of the marriage of Duncan Campbell and Margaret Macnaughton either has not survived, or it is the one in 1804 between Dun Campbell and Margarate Macnaughten in Kilmonivaig. If the latter, you need to consider why a couple married in Kilmonivaig would turn up a decade later in a croft in Dull, which in early 19th century terms is a long distance away, quite apart from being through difficult country.
Pitkerril is named on the first edition of the six-inch Ordnance Survey map https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.8&lat=56.68125&lon=-4.03374&layers=257&b=ESRIWorld&o=100 and shown but not named on the second edition https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.8&lat=56.68125&lon=-4.03374&layers=6&b=ESRIWorld&o=100
In 1881 there were two houses there. One was empty and the tenant of the other was Duncan Robertson, grazier and farmer. He was also there in 1871 and 1861.
The screenshot shows the detailed map with the ruins of Pitkerril (ringed in grey) in the forest, but the satellite view https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.6&lat=56.68322&lon=-4.02999&layers=6&b=ESRIWorld&o=0 shows that the forest has been felled. It may be possible to walk down from the road to the ruins - there is what looks like a forestry track - but I cannot recommend it as I have not walked it myself and I do not know whether or not it is rough or worse.
I think the ruins are probably on the flat ground in the middle distance in this photograph https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1430995 but if they're not there, they're not far from it.
As for John Wilkie, I don't think there is enough information to pinpoint where he came from.
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You need to accept that the record of the marriage of Duncan Campbell and Margaret Macnaughton either has not survived, or it is the one in 1804 between Dun Campbell and Margarate Macnaughten in Kilmonivaig. If the latter, you need to consider why a couple married in Kilmonivaig would turn up a decade later in a croft in Dull, which in early 19th century terms is a long distance away, quite apart from being through difficult country.
There were a number of families that moved from or married in Kilmonivaig and worked in Rannoch and Foss. So it isn't impossible the record corresponds, but yes the distance makes it less likely. Foss also saw a number of Kenmore/Killin families move up for work at this time as well.
DNA may also prove the line. I will message you Roberta with regards.
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Duncan Campbell in Dalnaspidal Margaret Campbell in Cragganour, Fortingall 20 May 1795
So Margaret was from Kinlochrannoch area.
Paul Campbell below probably related (brother?)
Paul Campbell 1 Ann McGregor Fortingall parish Ann 12 Aug 1795
Paul Campbell Ann McGregor Fortingall parish Donald 1 May 1797
Paul Campbell Ann McGregor Dalnaspidal Archibald 1 May 1799
Paul Campbell Ann McGregor Spittle of Glengary
(Dalnaspital) Elispet 7 Jan 1802
1 Paul Campbell and Ann McGregor, married Fortingall, 12 Jun 1796.