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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Rachael89 on Thursday 03 April 25 22:10 BST (UK)
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Hi all I'm looking for help with figuring out what happened to an ancestor of mine.
The person in question went by several names, which complicates things:
- Ann Santer (b. 16 March 1863, Golford, Cranbrook, Kent) - this is the name and date/place of birth on her birth certificate
- Anne Maria Santer (baptised 7 June 1863, Sissinghurst) - this is the name she was baptised under
- Annie Santer - this is the name she appears under in the 1881 census and on the record of her marriage
- Annie Santer/Saunter married William Boorman on 17 October 1885 in Cranbrook, Kent - this was definitely her as her father had the right name (Charles Santer)
My dilemma is that I can discover nothing concrete about Annie at all after her wedding - I can find no trace of her or William in the 1891 census or in any later census. I can also find no corresponding death. There are other people with the names 'William Boorman' and 'Annie Boorman', but I have been able to establish that they are different people (one 'Annie M Boorman' married to a 'William L Boorman' had a different maiden name, and an 'Annie Boorman' appearing in the 1901 census was born in Cranbrook c. 1864 but was single at the time).
So I'm pretty stumped and wondering if anyone could help unblock this line of investigation for me. I only have access to UK records so it may be that they emigrated elsewhere, and I'd be very grateful for any help anyone could offer. Thank you!
(n.b. I've done DNA and there are no matches via Annie, so that's no help.)
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Have you checked GRO online for Boorman births with mmn Santer
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
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Have you checked GRO online for Boorman births with mmn Santer
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Yes and could find nothing :(
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Long shot
What do you know about William? There is a Maria Boorman death in 1890 aged 28. May not be her - but if it is - William may have remarried. Have you tried looking for just him on the 1901 census?
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Long shot
What do you know about William? There is a Maria Boorman death in 1890 aged 28. May not be her - but if it is - William may have remarried. Have you tried looking for just him on the 1901 census?
Thanks for your help with this - unfortunately William is proving a very frustrating mystery. The only concrete information about him comes from a note attached to the marriage record on the BMD, which reads:
St Dunstans Cranbrook
17 Oct 1885
William Boorman & Annie Santer
Fathers:
Robert Boorman - Charles Santer
So all I know is they got married in Cranbrook and his father's name was Robert Boorman - I don't even have his age for certain. There are four William Boormans on the GRO listed as having their births registered in Cranbrook between 1845 and 1865 (the most likely range) - two William Boormans born in 1851, and two William Henry Boormans (one born in 1855, and one born in 1856). In the 1861 census, there are only two William Boormans born in Cranbrook in the right range and the father of one is a William Boorman and the father of the other is a Thomas Boorman.
The most likely candidate for the one who married Annie Santer seems to be this guy who appears in the 1881 census, but I can't find a birth record for him to confirm who his parents were (from my search, there were no births of children called William Boorman in Cranbrook in 1861):
Name William Boorman
Age 20
Estimated Birth Year abt 1861
Relationship to Head Workman
Gender Male
Where born Cranbrook, Kent, England
Civil parish Guestling
County/Island Sussex
Country England
Street Address Guestling Thorne
Occupation Blacksmith Journeyman
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Possible marriage
Dec 1894 East Preston 2b 756
Boorman, Annie Maria
Couchman, George
They are in Godstone, Surrey, in 1901
Annie Couchman, 37, born Cranbrook, Kent
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9X6-FK4
1911
Annie M Couchman, 47, born Cranbrook, Kent
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW8N-2Z6
1921 Annie's transcribed age is 58 years 3 months
Some births
COUCHMAN, ANNIE
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAUNTER
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 197
COUCHMAN, SUSANNA
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAUNTER
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 224
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From the marriage 1885
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tqn/
Both are of full age residing in Cranbrook, William and father Robert are labourers
Marriage witneses George Dunster, June Santer
***Added William as bachelor
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1891
East Malling, Kent, England
George Buchman 52 Head, lab, Wittersham, Kent, (image is age 32)
Annie Buchman 28 Wife, Cranbrook, Kent,
Image is Couchman
Cas
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Wow I can't thank you all enough! This is fantastic detective work and I'm so grateful. This fills a gap I've had in the tree for years and it's amazing to find a whole new branch. Thanks all!
While I'm here I thought it might be worth asking about Annie's brother. In the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses, a man named 'Charles Santer' born in 1845 in Cranbrook appears. He's listed in the census as the son of Charles and Susanna (need Kadwell) Santer, which would make him the brother of Annie. I can't find his birth in the GRO.
I can't find any marriage or death for him or any trace of him after the 1871 census - if anyone can work their magic on him if they're so inclined, that would be amazing. Someone else has him down as 'Charles William Santer and dying in Sissinghurst in 1882, but that appears to be incorrect as far as I can tell.
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Possible marriage
Dec 1894 East Preston 2b 756
Boorman, Annie Maria
Couchman, George
They are in Godstone, Surrey, in 1901
Annie Couchman, 37, born Cranbrook, Kent
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9X6-FK4
1911
Annie M Couchman, 47, born Cranbrook, Kent
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW8N-2Z6
1921 Annie's transcribed age is 58 years 3 months
Some births
COUCHMAN, ANNIE
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAUNTER
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 197
COUCHMAN, SUSANNA
Mother's Maiden Surname: SAUNTER
GRO Reference: 1905 J Quarter in GODSTONE Volume 02A Page 224
Also, since @stallc found them in the 1891 census living together as a married couple, I'm assuming that means they were posing as married before they actually got married? That's interesting and another wrinkle in the story - especially as I still don't think we've discovered what happened to the first husband...
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While I'm here I thought it might be worth asking about Annie's brother. In the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses, a man named 'Charles Santer' born in 1845 in Cranbrook appears. He's listed in the census as the son of Charles and Susanna (need Kadwell) Santer, which would make him the brother of Annie. I can't find his birth in the GRO.
Baptism for Charles with parents Charles & Susanna was 3rd May 1845 at Sissinghurst / Cranbrook.
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While I'm here I thought it might be worth asking about Annie's brother. In the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses, a man named 'Charles Santer' born in 1845 in Cranbrook appears. He's listed in the census as the son of Charles and Susanna (need Kadwell) Santer, which would make him the brother of Annie. I can't find his birth in the GRO.
Baptism for Charles with parents Charles & Susanna was 3rd May 1845 at Sissinghurst / Cranbrook.
Thank you! That's helpful in proving that he was their child, as I was starting to wonder if it was some kind of informal adoption situation.
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It was not unusual for births not to be registered that early in the registration process. :-\
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Just posting this as there are NO Charles Santer births between 1838-42.
Deaths Dec 1882
Santer Charles 42 Ticehurst 2b 63
Newspaper article 1882.
SS
NOT YOUR MAN__APPEARS IN 1871/ 1881 Census
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I think he may be in Tonbridge in 1871 and 1881 bn Biddenden (occ Licensed Victualler :-\ )
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I think he may be in Tonbridge in 1871 and 1881 bn Biddenden (occ Licensed Victualler :-\ )
That's not him alas - he's still living with his parents in the 1871 census and his profession then is given as 'hotel waiter (unemployed)'.
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Could he have gone to Australia? :-\
There is a Charles Santer arriving in Australia in 1874, age 26 (Queensland)
A Charles Santer died in Victoria in January 1916. Age 71. No details of parents indexed on the Victoria BDM site.
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Left a will, short and sweet
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6QG3-782
ADDED
Lots of images of probate stuff here
https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/55CCAEE3-F225-11E9-AE98-FB8697D4CB54?image=1
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From the name in the will, Louis Weedon, a Charles SANTER married an Ellen WEEDON in 1898, according to the Vic BDM website.
Charles on Findagrave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/229233858/charles-santer
Ian C
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Wow another amazing success story! Thanks so much everyone - I've been searching the Australian newspaper archive and have found many mentions of him. He seems to have been the proprietor of a series of hotels/beer joints in Victoria, which lines up with what we know about him and his family (his father, Charles Snr, was a 'beershop owner' and it seems that both father and son got prosecuted for breaching licencing conditions by selling beer on a Sunday!).
The only remaining gap is Charles' brother John Henry Santer:
- Born 19 June 1850, Cranbrook - named John Santer on birth certificate
- Christened as 'John Henry Santer' on 11 August 1850
- 1851 census - name given as 'Henry Santer'
- 1861 census - name given as 'John Henry Santer'
- 1871 census - name given as 'John Santer'
In the 1871 census, he was living alone and his occupation was 'butcher'. I can't find any trace of him after that, and again no matching deaths. Would be very grateful for any help/assistance with him to establish the fates of all the siblings!
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Have you discounted this one
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:ML7C-BZH?lang=en
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Have you discounted this one
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:ML7C-BZH?lang=en
Thanks - seems unlikely unfortunately as that John Santer emigrated in 1860, and we know my John Santer was still in England until at least 1871.
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I could not see that one in USA prior to the 1900’s, I wondered if the 1860 date was wrong
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I could not see that one in USA prior to the 1900’s, I wondered if the 1860 date was wrong
It could be! Unfortunately my Ancestry subscription isn't global, so if anyone can access more information about this person that would be very helpful.
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The John Santer in Oklahoma was the son of Iden Santer and Mary Bourne, born in Frittenden, Kent in 1850. Their only child. The Caroline Santer in 1851 UK census with Iden and Mary was born as a Bourne before the marriage.
Iden Santer died in Headcorn, Kent in 1851, run over by a wagon, and his widow Mary married Frederick Whiting in 1853 and they all went to the US in 1858. They all appear in Oklahoma starting in 1860 US census.
Going on a couple of trees on Ancestry, Iden Santer was a brother to Charles the father of the family OP is looking for. They were both sons of Stephen Santer and Judith Busbridge.
That would make the two Johns first cousins.
John, son of Iden, died in Oklahoma in 1921.
Ian C
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According to the same tree as above, John Henry married a Betsy Marrow in Romney Marsh in Sep qtr 1873 as Henry Santer. Only one bride showing on FreeBMD though, Rosena Ovenden.
The same tree has them having a son James Thomas Santer born 1872, but he doesn't show up on FreeBMD or GRO, but he does show up as being baptised at Kilndown, Kent on 21 Jul 1872, s/o John Henry Santer and Betsey Marrow.
Ian C
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According to the same tree as above, John Henry married a Betsy Marrow in Romney Marsh in Sep qtr 1873 as Henry Santer. Only one bride showing on FreeBMD though, Rosena Ovenden.
The same tree has them having a son James Thomas Santer born 1872, but he doesn't show up on FreeBMD or GRO, but he does show up as being baptised at Kilndown, Kent on 21 Jul 1872, s/o John Henry Santer and Betsey Marrow.
Ian C
Thank you! That's a really helpful tip - I've been doing some digging into this, and think I've uncovered at least part of the mystery. First of all, I think that tree lists the marriages erroneously - they relate to a different Henry Santer in a different part of Kent.
While I couldn't find any birth record for a James Thomas Santer, I could find a birth record for a James Thomas Barrow born on 1872 in Cranbrook (in the census, his birthplace appears as Goudhurst or Kilndown, which matches the baptism record). So I think 'Marrow' is a transcription error and the child's mother was actually Betsy Barrow, and James was her illegitimate child (on the GRO, he appears with the dash indicating no father listed).
I know that occasionally the natural father's name would be written on the baptism record or similar, so maybe that's what happened here and that's why there's a baptism record for a James Thomas Santer? It still doesn't help answer the mystery of what happened to John but it helps a lot.
On his own marriage record, James records his father's name as 'John Barrow' and indicates he's deceased at the time (1893), and of unknown occupation. So it looks like James was (very understandably) hedging the truth of his own background, which he may not have been fully aware of himself (his mother died a few years after he was born).
ETA: From checking the census, John Santer and Betsy Barrow were literally living on the same street when the 1871 census was taken, which strongly supports this theory.