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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Oneday on Thursday 03 April 25 03:33 BST (UK)
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I would like to know what resources are available to find out who served in this part of the British Army in the early 1800's. In particular it would include those who were posted to Ireland to do survey work.
I have searched some of the British Archives but I'm unsure of where else to look.
The date period would be between approx 1810 to 1835.
Any suggestions would be welcome.
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Are you looking for someone in particular?
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I found my relative who spent time in Ireland on survey work during that time period, by first finding that two of his children were born in Ireland (from 1841 and 1851 censuses after he was discharged due to health reasons and returned to England) Census also said he was an army pensioner, so I looked him up on FindMyPast and found his service record. Luckily it was one that had survived and ran to several pages.
I don't know of any way to just search for Men in that particular regiment and timeframe.
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Very few Army records survive from that early period. It may be worth contacting the Royal Engineers Museum at Chatham. A quick Google will find the website and contact details.
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The title of this thread may lead you down the wrong path. The survey work in Ireland and Great Britain was undertaken by officers of the Corps of Royal Engineers who in turn were controlled by the Board of Ordnance, hence why the civilian organisation of today is named Ordnance Survey. The Corps of Sappers and Miners was an entirely separate body which did not amalgamate with the Royal Engineers until 1856. There were no surveyors in the Corps of Sappers and Miners {Added for clarification} but they were employed in ancilliary duties in support of the surveyors {}. Prior to 1856 the Royal Engineers was an officer only corps who provided the officer structure for the Sappers and Miners. Therefore you should be looking for records of Royal Engineer officers who were detached on survey duties.
If you look at old Army Lists for the period, you will find Royal Engineer Officers are listed separately from the Infantry and Cavalry, along with the Artillery under the heading Ordnance Department. All RE officers were trained in surveying, although only a few would have been employed in that role throughout their careers.
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You might find this History of the Ordnance Survey (https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/documents/resources/os-history.pdf) helpful.
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The Royal Engineer officers in charge of the operation were Thomas Colby and Lieutenant Thomas Larcom. They were assisted by George Petrie, who headed the Survey's Topographical Department which employed the likes of John O'Donovan and Eugene O'Curry in scholarly research into placenames. Captain J.E. Portlock compiled extensive information on agricultural produce and natural history, particularly geology.
Taken from the Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_Survey_Ireland#History) on the subject of the Irish Ordnance Survey, which turn is based on Rachel Hewitt, Ensign of Empire', Map Of A Nation: A Biography Of The Ordnance Survey (Granta Books, 7 Jul 2011)
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Andy J2022 - I find your reply rather confusing. Are you saying that no men of the Royal Sappers and Miners were involved in the Irish Survey from 1810 to 1835?
My relative, John Fowler was definitely in the Royal Sappers and Minersand he definitely worked on the Irish survey, not as a surveyor but as a draughtsman.
He was born 22 Dec 1799 he was a corporal in the Royal Sappers and Miners when he was discharged in 1839. He joined Royal Sappers and Miners as a bugler on 6 July 1811 and served as such until 5 July 1818. Then he was a private from 6 July 1818 until 31 Dec 1824, 2nd Corporal from 1 Jan 1824 until 31 July 1832, promoted to Corporal on 1 Aug 1832 until 8 October 1839. All this with the Royal S & M.
There is a document in his service record (1839) , which refers to a medical board where John's fitness for further service was examined. It states "he had been employed as the last fourteen years on the Irish Survey as a draughtsman, during the last seven of this period he has found his vision becoming impaired, so that he cannot see near objects with any degree of distinctiveness..."
Possibly the OP's relative may have served in a similar capacity as mine.
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Thank you so much "Oneday" for starting this thread and make me look at my relative again. For years I hasn't been able to find his death. His second wife and family were discovered in Canada and I thought he must have died in Canada, but had no evidence. But military pension records show he was living in Bytown (early name for Ottawa) on 1 July 1857 and died on 26 Feb 1859. If I hadn't looked closely at his service record and seen his date of discharge and matched it with the pension record (pension started following day), I wouldn't have got the right John Fowler.
If you have access to FindMyPast (or can get access at a library) it's worth a trawl through their records.
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Hi LizzieL,
Sorry about the confusion. Yes, there were members of the Sappers and Miners employed in the Irish Survey mainly in the supporting roles, such as notetaking and draughting. They no doubt also carried the equipment around! I believe some triangulation points (concrete posts set in the ground) were installed during the survey, and this would have been another task done by the Sappers and Miners.
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Thanks to all who have responded so far. The person I am looking for is William Bowden/Boden. He was sent to Australia in 1833/4 on board the James Laing as a convict after being found not on duty and drunk whilst serving in Ireland. He is a long shot as William has been very difficult to find.
The family story has it that his parents are John and Ellen with William being born in 1818? Cheshire. Both father and son were miners.
I had never considered this type of miner that is why it's a long shot.
Someone else also has this William dying in 1839 in Australia but being born around 1800 and a native of Cornwall. If this is correct, he is not the right one. My first idea is to see if I can find him or his father in the Military. Let me know if you need any other details.
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My relative was from Launceston Cornwall and his attestation mentions he was a miner. But he seems to have officially attested part way through his adult service.
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There is a record on FindMyPast for a William Bowden removed from the hulk Essex to the James Laing. He was tried 20 June 1833, crime drunkenness. he was of the 43rd regiment. He was sentenced to 7 years. He was 6ft 1 inch, had hazel eyes, dark hair and bronze complexion. He was 34 years old, so that makes his birth around 1799. He is on a record with a number of other soldiers from various regiments.
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Another record has a list of convicts from the James Laing with a column headed "how disposed of" which I guess is what employer they were assigned to when they arrived. William Bowden's entry has been abbreviated but it looks like mineral survey department.
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A later record "General muster of male and female convicts of new South Wales" confirms he was convicted in Dublin, but has his age as 31.
If you do find his military record any service in Ireland would just be recorded as "Home". I only discovered my relative had served in Ireland from the detail on his medical report prior to discharge
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There are a number of William Bowden / Bodens born about 1799 /1800.
beware of family stories. I was once involved with a search for a baptism based on a story said to have been handed down in the family. It turned out that the "generations old family story" was based on some erroneous research done a few years earlier by a cousin.
There is a baptism of a William Boden on 18 May 1800 at Witton-Cum-Twambrooks, Cheshire. At first the parents might appear to be John and Ellen BUT if the record image is read correctly it says that this William was the son of Joseph (the column is headed Father's name). Then there are columns for Place of Abode and profession. In this case Lordship and Laboure. The next column is headed "HIS father's and mother's name". This can only refer to the Father and Mother of the child's father. i.e William's paternal grandparents. These are John and Ellen. Next column THEIR place of abode - again Lordship. Next column is mother's name - Ellen. Then the next column is HER Father and Mother's names - William and Ann Moors. Their place of abode - Witton Crow. When born 22 April 1800. When baptised 18 May 1800.
If it turns out to be your William, then that record has given you a lot of information.
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Oh, the wonders of a Dade Register. ;D
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Dade_parish_registers
Mainly in Yorkshire - Ainsty = 14 parishes, York = 23, East Riding = 46, North Riding = 33 and West Riding = 42. Cheshire has 3 parishes - Alsager, Macclesfield and Witton. Devon - Uplyme. Essex - Moreton, Lancashire - 8. Nottinghamshire - 8 and Surrey - 1.
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Oh, the wonders of a Dade Register. ;D
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/Dade_parish_registers
Mainly in Yorkshire - Ainsty = 14 parishes, York = 23, East Riding = 46, North Riding = 33 and West Riding = 42. Cheshire has 3 parishes - Alsager, Macclesfield and Witton. Devon - Uplyme. Essex - Moreton, Lancashire - 8. Nottinghamshire - 8 and Surrey - 1.
Yes, it's a shame it wasn't more widely adopted, then I suppose vicars in those days were far too busy too fill in more than the law required in the register.