RootsChat.Com

Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: ikas on Wednesday 02 April 25 11:44 BST (UK)

Title: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: ikas on Wednesday 02 April 25 11:44 BST (UK)
Marriage cert from 1860. I would like opinions on John Henderson's mother's surname. TIA
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 02 April 25 11:46 BST (UK)
Did you mean to post an image so we could look and form an opinion?

Boo
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: ikas on Wednesday 02 April 25 11:49 BST (UK)
Yes, forgot to attach. ;D
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: Pennines on Wednesday 02 April 25 11:54 BST (UK)
Looks a bit like 'Muir' but not sure.
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 02 April 25 12:00 BST (UK)
Looks a bit like 'Muir' but not sure.

Think that's the bride's mother Pennines?

I think the groom's mmn starts with Br , but its very unclear. I'd be asking SP to  see if the original is clearer to read

Boo
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: gc1 on Wednesday 02 April 25 12:01 BST (UK)
Is this a transcript possible from Family search

Name   John Henderson
Age   22
Birth Year (Estimated)   1838
Marital Status   Single
Father's Name   John Henderson
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Mary Brown
Mother's Sex   Female
Spouse's Name   Janet Mitchell
Spouse's Age   25
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated)   1835
Spouse's Marital Status   Single
Spouse's Father's Name   David Mitchell
Spouse's Father's Sex   Male
Spouse's Mother's Name   Janet Muir
Event Type   Marriage
Event Date   21 Jun 1860
Event Place   New Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6TLK-MVST?lang=en
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: ikas on Wednesday 02 April 25 12:09 BST (UK)
GC1 - Yes that is the family but I'm not sure if Brown is correct.
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: gc1 on Wednesday 02 April 25 12:17 BST (UK)
GC1 - Yes that is the family but I'm not sure if Brown is correct.

May I ask why ???
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: ikas on Wednesday 02 April 25 12:34 BST (UK)
I read it as Brown myself but I cannot find John Henderson's birth record on SP ca 1838 (calculated). Tried searching for parent names John and Mary but nothing like Brown comes up. I was hoping someone would come up with an alternative.
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: teragram31510 on Wednesday 02 April 25 12:37 BST (UK)
Brown is what I saw at first - before reading the rest of the replies and before comparing the first letter with the 'B' of Banns
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: Pennines on Wednesday 02 April 25 13:16 BST (UK)
Oh Gosh Boo - I was looking at the bride's mother's surname -- so sorry.

Yes - another vote for the groom's mother's surname as Brown.
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: gc1 on Wednesday 02 April 25 13:54 BST (UK)
Can I ask where this image comes from and is there a link that we can see the original please. It could help to see more so as to compare other possible first letter matches.
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: Tickettyboo on Wednesday 02 April 25 13:57 BST (UK)
Can I ask where this image comes from and is there a link that we can see the original please. It could help to see more so as to compare other possible first letter matches.

Its a Marriage Record from Scotland's People so the only way to see it is to pay for it

Boo
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 02 April 25 14:35 BST (UK)
His mother's maiden name when he died aged 83 in 1920 was Brown.

SS
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 02 April 25 14:42 BST (UK)
1841 census records John's parents both born Ireland, possibly married in Ireland prior to coming to Scotland. Daughter Agness born Scotland c1823

John Henderson
40  Ireland
Mary Henderson   35  Ireland
Agness Henderson
18
Mary Henderson
14
Elisabeth Henderson
11
Sarah Henderson
8
John Henderson
6
Adam Henderson
4 Mo

SS
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 02 April 25 14:52 BST (UK)
In 1841/51 in John's household is an Adam Henderson--nephew. Believe 2 brother married 2 sisters.
HENDERSON
ADAM
JAMES HENDERSON/JANET BROWN FR466 (FR466)
M
23/01/1841
656
20 / 152
Stonehouse.

SS
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: ikas on Wednesday 02 April 25 15:13 BST (UK)
Apologies but I have been out and I only picked up latest messages just now. Thanks to all who have replied.

GC1 - The crop is from a SP marriage record. I think the forum rules do not allow the full record to be posted. I now accept the surname is Brown.

Softly Softly - Many thanks for your efforts. I much appreciate your assistance. I do hope you are not out of pocket. I am trying to link my Henderson line to a match on MH. I have built up his tree from a female Henderson at the top through the line posted by GC1 on Family Search. I will need to study your posts in more detail tonight as again I have to go out. I have been trying to trace my Irish ethnicity since my test in 2020. It looks as though you might have found it!

I will update this thread tomorrow.
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: Pennines on Wednesday 02 April 25 15:27 BST (UK)
Well done, Softly Softly - great research for ikas.
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: softly softly on Wednesday 02 April 25 17:23 BST (UK)
Info only.

John Henderson's(c1837) father John Henderson c1799/1804 is still alive in 1861 census. He is with his daughter Agnes McGuire and grandson Thomas McGuire. Thomas McGuire was actually born as Thomas Henderson 15th January 1858 Beith, Ayrshire, the Illegitimate son of Agnes Henderson-occupation Muslin Hewer.

James the father was also a widower so wife died between 1851-61

SS
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: ikas on Thursday 03 April 25 15:55 BST (UK)
To conclude. John's mother's MS was Brown.

I still cannot connect my matches Henderson line to my own however I am off to look again at the John Henderson b ca 1781 at the top of my tree. I have never found a BC for him only a MC. I will look for him in Irish records given the information posted by SS.

Thanks to all and especially SS for your efforts on my behalf.
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: gc1 on Thursday 03 April 25 16:30 BST (UK)
Are we talking about John and Mary ??? (sorry too many John's)

Name   John Henderson
Sex   Male
Spouse's Name   Mary Brown
Spouse's Sex   Female
Event Type   Marriage
Event Date   13 Dec 1817
Event Place   Gorbals, Lanarkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTB8-1RM?lang=en
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: gc1 on Thursday 03 April 25 16:48 BST (UK)
V long shot (Quick Baptism worries me ???)


Name    John Henderson
Gender    Male
Age    0
Birth Date    23 Jul 1781
Baptism Date    29 Jul 1781
Baptism Place    Hamilton, Lanark, Scotland
Residence Date    1781
Residence Place Hamilton, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Father    John Henderson
Mother    Lily Syms

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/60143/records/25073966
Title: Re: Help Decipher Surname
Post by: ikas on Friday 04 April 25 11:18 BST (UK)
Thanks GC1. As you say a long shot but Lanarkshire encouraging.