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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: lnr on Wednesday 02 April 25 04:50 BST (UK)
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I have a marriage cert 13 July Spinster 1863 parish of Swansea Glamorgan for a John Massey full age batch labourer father Charles Massey to Jane BILBRINE full age spinster father Peter Bilbrine Miller I am looking for Jane. Found her 1861 census Bishopston Glamorgan as Jane BILBORNIE aged 19 so born abt 1842 she was a servant ( dairy maid) and said she was born Scotland working for a George BROADWOODHave looked scotlands people under all sorts of names and different censuses. John & jane came to NZ with their family on the Edwin Fox 1878 John died 1916 and buried Omaka cem NZ Jane was still in Wairau 1919. The will for a Jane Massey whom died Sumner and buried at Timaru is not her 1916 so where did she go and what could be possible spellings for her maiden name thanks lnr
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there is a Jean BALBIRNIE in the 1851 census Scotland age 8. so born c 1843.
she is a scholar pauper. born Dundee, Forfar, lodging in a household at Balkirrie
I can only see the indexed transcript on Ancestry. Would that image be worth getting?
I cannot see a baptism for that Jean
But is this her death?
1919/11669 Massey Jean Bilbernie 76Y
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If you look on the quick search at Scotland's People for Bilbrine there is not one single reference, and Jane's marriage is the only reference on FreeBMD, so it looks as if Bilbrine must be a mistranscription.
Do you have an image of the original certificate to see what it actually says? If not, get a copy from https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/app_select.asp
Do you have information suggesting that she was from Perthshire?
There's an 8-year-old Jean Balbirnie, scholar pauper, born Forfar, a lodger in a household in the 1851 census in Eassie, Angus.
As she is described as a pauper, and it's after 1845 when the Poor Law system was overhauled,there should have been records of her in the Forfar Parochial Board records. I am not convinced that these have survived, but you could ask Angus Archives https://visitangus.com/things-to-see-do/attractions/angus-archives/
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Family in 1871 ref 5457 42 22
MASSEY, EMMA JANE mmn BURNIE
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 563
MASSY, MARY ANN mmn BALTARNY
GRO Reference: 1866 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 572
MASSEY, JENNETT LOUISA mmn BILBERNIE
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 626
MASSEY, CHARLES HENRY mmn BURNEY
GRO Reference: 1870 D Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 574
SS
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I'd tracked mother's maiden name via Birth registrations. I don't think William Joseph part of family, should be -
Albert John, reg Dec Qtr 1877, Swansea, 11a 702 - mother Burns
The 5 children cross check to parish baptisms and passenger list of family's assisted emigration to Marlborough 1878.
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MASSEY, EDWARD JOHN BILBIRNIE
GRO Reference: 1872 S Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 620
SS
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I was also checking out Edith (bap next Edward John, bap 1yr 7mths old 1874)), bap 5 weeks old** 1874, parents John and Jane, father Horsekeeper, address Pottery St.
There's a June Qtr, 1874 birth registration for Edith, mother Burnell.
**Baptised between 4th and 14th Jun.
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Thanks so much for all these thoughts always good to get another side to the story very much appreciated will follow these up lnr
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I would also like to know what happened to Mary Ann Massey who came to Nz born 1866 Glamorgan Wales She was on electoral rolls at Wairau for a while as a nurse then gone thanks lnr
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Have you the print out for the 1919 death yet?
I wonder since Mary Ann was unmarried in 1902, if she ever married. In which case it may be that she is who Jane/Jean is living when she died in 1919.
The cert should also account for children who are still living which might be helpful.
Also..have you used the AI on family search to search the NZ wills to see if Mary Ann is a beneficiary in any of them. . I’ve just looked. Nothing for your one.
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no havnt got death cert yet. thanks lnr
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Hi Have now found Mary Massey died 11 dec 1932 cremated 12 Dec 1932 Karori and Emma Jane died 1943 30th July Karori cremated niche wall 5/33 Thanks for your help LNR
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Which fits with Jean being buried Karori 1919
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There's an 8-year-old Jean Balbirnie, scholar pauper, born Forfar, a lodger in a household in the 1851 census in Eassie, Angus.
I see that the transcription I looked at was wrong in saying she was born in Forfar. FreeCEN says Dundee, and I would trust FreeCEN more than other transcriptions on commercial web sites.
One should, of course, always look at the original document as even FreeCEN could get it wrong.
This means that if there are any surviving Poor Law records, the place to start looking is Dundee City Archives https://www.dundeecity.gov.uk/service-area/corporate-services/democratic-and-legal-services/archives not Angus Archives.
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Was she younger than records show??
BALBIRNIE
JANET COUTS
WILLIAM BALBIRNIE/JANET SCOTT FR5385 (FR5385)
F
22/02/1846
282
190 / 248
Dundee
Possible death of mother
BALBIRNIE
JANET
45
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F
1856
282 / 2 / 1221
Dundee Second District
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added, In my heart of hearts don't think so.
SS
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That one would be only 5 in 1841, and a bit young to be working so far from home in 1851?
Also she's Janet, not Jean, and I find so many families with both a Janet/Jessie and a Jean/Jane that I need quite a bit of convincing to persuade me that the names are fully interchangeable.
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On first post according to marriage certificate her father was Peter
In the 1861 census she is down born in Scotland she is with a family that comes from Eassie Angus
John and Jane Broadwood ( maiden name Butters ) this Jane also ended up in N.Z 1875
With her family wonder if there is some connection ?
1871 census Glamorgan Jane Massey birth place is Perthshire Scotland
Rosie
Rosie
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1871 census Glamorgan Jane Massey birth place is Perthshire Scotland
Ah, so that's where Perthshire comes into it.
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1871 census Glamorgan Jane Massey birth place is Perthshire Scotland
Ah, so that's where Perthshire comes into it.
Yes it appears to be ;)
Rosie
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When checking the 1871 Census for the Masseys made a file note to alert you to John Massey's location in Swansea but zee leetle grey cells failed (yet again) so playing catch up.
On the Census the households run " ...Killay, Gaytre (s/be Goitre - John Massey), Gaytre (s/be Goitre), Gellidomill (s/be Gelli Dywyll) Farm Sketty, Sketty, Olchfa, Yscuborucha (s/be Ysguboruchaf) Farm ...".
On this 1878 map you can see Goitre Bellaf, Goitre Fawr and Goitre Fâch and the others. The Census doesn't distinguish 'twixt the three so cannot positively identify John's holding. If pressed might plump for Goitre Fâch.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102342502#zoom=6.1&lat=6190&lon=9377&layers=BT
Below Goitre Fâch you can see "Black Boy (P.H)" - my local 40 yrs ago.
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Thankyou very much to all who contributed to this forum and certainly gave much food for thought lnr
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Hi yesterday i found scotlands people under BALBIRNIE Birth: Mary Anne- Peter BALBIRNIE/Ann MACFARLANE 27/?/1835 PERTH Natural daught to Peter BALBIRNIE manager of spinning mill& Ann MACFARLANE resident of Blackfriars & baptised 27th day of Sept. Could this be a sister to Jane as she said her father was Peter and a miller I cant find a marriage for Peter & Ann or deaths for them either thanks lnr
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Natural daughter means she was illegitimate (as I understand it)
On the NZ death certificate printout for Jane/Jean, her mother should be named if the family knew it.
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Natural daughter means she was illegitimate (as I understand it)
Yes.