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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => Topic started by: PatLac on Thursday 27 March 25 00:21 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I'm trying to establish if Horace Gordon KILMISTER was known as Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER when he was young.
Horace was born in 1912, father Leonard Henry "Ernest" KILMISTER and mother May Georgina Florence Stilling STRATFORD.
I can see (only the entry, not the record, as I don't have an Ancestry subscription) electoral rolls for Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER (1936, 1946, 1949) and that he is listed in the New Zealand World War 2 ballot lists.
Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER married Martha Le(i)la KILMISTER in 1936.
According to a divorce notice in the newspapers, Martha Lela Kilmister (nee WATENE or WATENEY) was married to Albert Edward Ernest KILMISTER (NZ BDM 1924/6924) and he asked for divorce on the grounds of adultery with his half-brother Gordon KILMISTER. (New Zealand Herald, 2 Mar 1935, page 16)
Albert Edward Ernest KILMISTER was the son of Leonard Henry "Ernest" KILMISTER with his first wife Alice Maud SANDERS, and therefore he was the half-brother of Horace Gordon KILMISTER.
Martha Lela Kilmister died in 1965.
Horace Gordon KILMISTER is listed on the Electoral rolls of 1957, 1969, 1972, 1975, 1978, 1981, 1987. He died in 1988, and his will mentions his wife Audrey Fay KILMISTER.
Raewyn Elsie BRUTON, father Gordon KILMISTER, mother Audrey KILMISTER, died in Queensland in 1992, aged 52, b. 1952.
Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER and Ernest Henry KILMISTER are mentioned in the newspapers regarding a motor cycle smash (Pahiatua Herald, 11 Sep 1931, page 5).
And he's also mentioned as "KILMINSTER"
"FARM WORKER INJURED.
Auckland Star, Volume LXIV, Issue 308, 30 December 1933, Page 14
(By Telegraph.-Own Correspondent.)
HAMILTON, this day.
In attempting to stop a bolting horse,
Mr. Lawrence Gordon Kilminster (21), a farm hand employed by Mr. H. Mann, of Puketaha, tripped over a hayrake and broke his left leg. He was taken to the Waikato Hospital."
So... are Horace Gordon and Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER one and the same person?
Thanks!
P.S. and one more name!
Lawrence David Kilmister and Martha Leila Kilmister to Alexander Price McCardle, William Reginald Russell and George Ernest Stephenson
Entity type:
Item
Code:
R25549336
Years:
1945 - 1945
Box number:
104
Record number:
1945/5048
Location:
Auckland repository
Format:
Text
Item type:
Physical
Access status:
Open
Access statement:
Open access
https://collections.archives.govt.nz/web/arena/search#/entity/aims-archive/R25549336/lawrence-david-kilmister-and-martha-leila-kilmister-to-alexander-price-mccardle%2C-william-reginald-russell-and-george-ernest-stephenson?q=ernest+kilmister&source=aims-archive
And there is a restricted document about Martha Leila KILMISTER'S death.
Coroners Inquests - Case Files - Pukekohe - Kilmister, Martha Leila - Microfilm only [Use copy of MICRO R 4925]
https://collections.archives.govt.nz/web/arena/search#/entity/aims-archive/R24244185/coroners-inquests---case-files---pukekohe---kilmister%2C-martha-leila---microfilm-only-%5Buse-copy-of-micro-r-4925%5D?q=martha+leila&source=aims-archive
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Raewyn Elsie BRUTON, father Gordon KILMISTER, mother Audrey KILMISTER, died in Queensland in 1992, aged 52.
This daughter according to age at death, was born in c. 1940.
Her mother is given as Audrey who was a "wife" (and the widow) of Horace Gordon KILMISTER (haven't found a marriage for her yet).
I suppose you have to check whether this daughter Raewyn
- was in fact born in 1940 ??
- where born ?
- where parents married ?
Because back in New Zealand in 1941/1942, Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER was having a child with Martha (married 1936.)
NZ Birth Index
1941 / 81351
KILMISTER - Lawrence Kelvin
Parents : Martha Teila [sic] and Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER
(date of birth, as deduced from NZ birth index is 19 May 1941 )
NZ Deaths
1942 / 17341
KILMISTER - Lawrence Kelvin - aged 9 months
(date of death is 3 March 1942 - Reg. at Whakatane)
~ Lu
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Just as information
There is a tree on Family search that has a lot of Kilmister's family on it.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/9VS9-2YF
Facts
Alternate Name(s) • 0 Sources
Birth Name
Horace Gordon Kilmister
Also Known As
Gordon Kilmister
Also Known As
Lawrence Kilmister
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Just as information
There is a tree on Family search that has a lot of Kilmister's family on it.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/tree/pedigree/landscape/9VS9-2YF
Facts
Alternate Name(s) • 0 Sources
Birth Name
Horace Gordon Kilmister
Also Known As
Gordon Kilmister
Also Known As
Lawrence Kilmister
This is me, haha, along with a family member, pruning that tree. I have added the alternative name because I think I already have some good evidence but the family member hasn't replied to me yet about this particular issue.
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Raewyn Elsie BRUTON, father Gordon KILMISTER, mother Audrey KILMISTER, died in Queensland in 1992, aged 52.
This daughter according to age at death, was born in c. 1940.
Her mother is given as Audrey who was a "wife" (and the widow) of Horace Gordon KILMISTER (haven't found a marriage for her yet).
I suppose you have to check whether this daughter Raewyn
- was in fact born in 1940 ??
- where born ?
- where parents married ?
Because back in New Zealand in 1941/1942, Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER was having a child with Martha (married 1936.)
NZ Birth Index
1941 / 81351
KILMISTER - Lawrence Kelvin
Parents : Martha Teila [sic] and Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER
(date of birth, as deduced from NZ birth index is 19 May 1941 )
NZ Deaths
1942 / 17341
KILMISTER - Lawrence Kelvin - aged 9 months
(date of death is 3 March 1942 - Reg. at Whakatane)
~ Lu
Thanks Lu! Where have you found this info? According to Queensland BDM she was born in 1952, not 1942? And that's the same (sort of) info on her memorial on Find a Grave (1951)?
The other children of Lawrence (Horace) Gordon and Martha Leila all died in infancy and there's a stillborn as well, as far as I can check on NZ BDM.
I haven't found any marriage yet for Gordon and Audrey Fay but I suspect they have married after 1950 so it's not available on NZ BDM. There's no divorce records for Gordon and Martha Leila and she died in 1965, so maybe they have married after that but could have been living together since 1950-52?
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Another hint that Gordon and Martha Leila could have been separated is that she may have died in Kingseat which was a rural area known for its psychiatric hospital since around 1931.
(and according to Wikipedia "one of New Zealand's notorious haunted locations", spooky).
This info is on her profile on FS and MyHeritage (I can't see the whole familiy tree), under her Maori name, Rangipaura Watene.
The coroner's inquest was held in Pukehohe which corroborates this place of death.
I guess Raewyn is a Maori name? Could she have been the daughter of Martha Leila and adopted by Audrey Fay?
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Raewyn Elsie BRUTON, father Gordon KILMISTER, mother Audrey KILMISTER, died in Queensland in 1992, aged 52.
Thanks Lu! Where have you found this info? According to Queensland BDM she was born in 1952 not 1942? And that's the same (sort of) info on her memorial on Find a Grave (1951)?
[/quote]
;D Only by using the information you provided earlier .... "died in Queensland in 1992, aged 52" ... which equals a birth year circa 1940.
~ Lu
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Raewyn Elsie BRUTON, father Gordon KILMISTER, mother Audrey KILMISTER, died in Queensland in 1992, aged 52.
Thanks Lu! Where have you found this info? According to Queensland BDM she was born in 1952 not 1942? And that's the same (sort of) info on her memorial on Find a Grave (1951)?
;D Only by using the information you provided earlier .... "died in Queensland in 1992, aged 52" ... which equals a birth year circa 1940.
~ Lu
[/quote]
Haha, sorry, it's her date of birth, not age.
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The Will of Ernest Henry KILMISTER - was dated 20 June 1951.
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE63843077
In referring to his five children, four are mentioned with having second christian names ...
the other is simply named as "Gordon".
~ Lu
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The Will of Ernest Henry KILMISTER - was dated 20 June 1951.
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE63843077
In referring to his five children, four are mentioned with having second christian names ...
the other is simply named as "Gordon".
~ Lu
Yes, and that's the same name that appears on Martha Leila's death inquest. Husband: Gordon Kilmister.
She died at Kingseat Hospital as I suspected. The only new info is that she had another daughter with Gordon, Huiawarua Leila May Kilmister, who married John Selby Howell. She was born in 17 Feb 1935 and died in 1996. So Martha Leila was already pregnant when she married Gordon. She had been at the hospital for only 3 months though, so maybe Raewyn was also her daughter.
I think Lawrence and Horace Gordon Kilmister are one and the same person. I suppose this sort of thing was very common back then.
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So... are Horace Gordon and Lawrence Gordon KILMISTER one and the same person?
From his niece she only knew him as Gordon. Seems a few of the Kilmisters added another name to what is on BDMS:
Raewyn Elsie Kilmister married a Bruton.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/122752976/edit
If Audrey Fay was known as Fay this could be her marriage in Queensland:
Fay Kilminster
Event date: 03/05/1947
Event type: Marriage registration
Registration details: 1947/B/12479
Spouse: Arthur Joseph Smith
audrey Fay is daughter of Albert Edward Kilmister & Rangipaura [Martha Leila] Watene/Kilmister . There wer 2 children in this marriage.Hinemanu Myrtle Martha Kilmister
B:17 Aug 1925 NZ
D:14 Mar 1943 Whakatane area, New Zealand was the other one.
Martha & Albert divorced & she married his half brother Gordon. so Gordon was Fays niece & step father.
As they had the same surname, in later years so far I have found out that they appeared to live as what some of the family thought as a married couple. Fay moved to Queensland either pregnant or with a baby. Which would have been Raewyn Kilmister.
It may be a good while before my 3rd cousin & sons MILaw is able to obtain the hard copy good research he sister had done, that her niece is supposedly holding. her grandma was Mabel 'Ruby' Kilmister who never gave anything away. More recently it has been found out that Ruby had a baby before she married Hugh McIlroy. It was a girl she named Dorothy. I think she recently passed in Aus & had dementia. Dont know her adopted name. Trying to find out what area of NZ she was born in so I can plough through the birth fiche for that area & time. Hugh was a bit cross as he would have welcomed her with open arms into the family.
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Hi Margaret,
According to this newspaper:
WAIKATO TIMES, VOLUME 117, ISSUE
19514, 1 MARCH 1935, PAGE 7
DIVORCE DAY
UNDEFENDENT PETITTIONS
FOUR UNFAITHFUL WIFES
SEVERAL DECREES MADE
Signed admissions of misconduct between the wife and another man were produced when Albert Edward Ernest Kilmister (Mr. J. F. Strang) petitioned for divorce from his wife, Martha Lela [sic] Kilmister.
Petitioner said the parties were married in November 1924, and there were two children. In 1934, he suspected that his wife was involved in intimate relations with Gordon Kilmister, his half-brother. In September his wife admtted misconduct with the co-respondent and she was living with him at present.
The petition was granted.
I know that one of the children was Hinemanu Myrtle Martha Kilsmister. I was thinking that the second child could be the daughter mentioned in the coroner's inquest files on Martha Leila's death, but then I thought that she would most likely be Gordon's daughter.
Are you saying that Gordon married his half-brother's wife (Martha Leila) and after her death he married (lived with) their daughter (Audrey Fay)? Coudl he be just trying to help her?
The plot thickens!
P.S. This Dorothy shows up when you search for Dorothy KILMISTER (death), but I suppose her DOB doesn't fit?
Registration Number Family Name Given Name(s) Date of Birth/
2023/31541 Stevens Dorothy Elise 3 February 1935
Just noticed that she died in Australia...
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Are you saying that Gordon married his half-brother's wife (Martha Leila) and after her death he married (lived with) their daughter (Audrey Fay)? Coudl he be just trying to help her?
NZ Marriage - NZBDM
1936/5504 - KILMISTER - Martha Lela --- KILMISTER- Lawrence Gordon
also - source: NZDG Marriages CD
Year: 1936 [ Folio 05337 ]
KILMISTER - Lawrence Gordon
*KILMISTER - Martha Lela
*WATENE - Martha Lela
-- spelling of second christian name is "Lela" on both of these records.
[* Note: at NZSG source, a women's former married name is also included in the index.]
~ Lu
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Are you saying that Gordon married his half-brother's wife (Martha Leila) and after her death he married (lived with) their daughter (Audrey Fay)? Coudl he be just trying to help her?
Appearing as "Horace Gordon KILMISTER" in his will dated 6 July 1987 --
he refers to Audrey Fay KILMISTER, as "his wife".
https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE41119971
~ Lu
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Hi Lu,
I was aware of that part of the plot ;D What I didn't know was that Gordon married or lived with his niece Audrey Fay!
I thought she was just another wife, not his half brother's daughter!
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Hi Lu,
I was aware of that part of the plot ;D What I didn't know was that Gordon married or lived with his niece Audrey Fay!
I thought she was just another wife, not his half brother's daughter!
;D ... oops, I must have misunderstood your comment.
I added the link to the will of Horace Gordon KILMISTER because it contains "evidence" that he thought of Audrey Fay KILMISTER, as his wife.
~ Lu
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I didn't mention it earlier - because I assumed you would already have checked - but Audrey Fay KILMISTER appears on NZ Electoral rolls from 1966 (Auckland - Waitakere Roll) :
1966 - Waitakere
KILMISTER - Audrey Fay - housewife
KILMISTER - Horace Gordon - dealer -- both residing at Knox Road, Swanson
~ Lu
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Hi PatLac
... just adding re: Audrey Fay* KILMISTER (also spelled as "Faye"), I'd searched (NZ) electoral rolls earlier to see if I could spot her under another surname (whilst trying to ascertain when she may have married "Gordon"... all to no avail.
1966 seems to be the earliest ... although of course she could have been in NZ well before that date. ??? She was also perfectly entitled to use any surname (in fact any names) when registering to enrol for voting (so long as those were names she was commonly known by.)
If the earlier wife Martha died in 1965 then 1966 seems a timely date to move in with "Gordon". ???
~ Lu
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I didn't mention it earlier - because I assumed you would already have checked - but Audrey Fay KILMISTER appears on NZ Electoral rolls from 1966 (Auckland - Waitakere Roll) :
1966 - Waitakere
KILMISTER - Audrey Fay - housewife
KILMISTER - Horace Gordon - dealer -- both residing at Knox Road, Swanson
~ Lu
Thanks, Lu. I don't have access to all information on electoral rolls (only the entries), and I know nothing about the electoral rules in NZ, so every explanation is appreciated.
If Audrey Fay was Martha Leila's daughter with Albert Edward she must have been born between 1925 and 1935 when they were already separated (divorce 1936).
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Hi Lu,
I was aware of that part of the plot ;D What I didn't know was that Gordon married or lived with his niece Audrey Fay!
I thought she was just another wife, not his half brother's daughter!
;D ... oops, I must have misunderstood your comment.
I added the link to the will of Horace Gordon KILMISTER because it contains "evidence" that he thought of Audrey Fay KILMISTER, as his wife.
~ Lu
Ah, but if she was his official wife her married name would be Kilmister anyway ;D
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Ah, but if she was his official wife her married name would be Kilmister anyway ;D
That's true ... (I didn't want to state the obvious) ;D
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Deleted my question as being unnecessary.
~ Lu
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OK
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Deleted this question as no longer relevant.
~ Lu
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Margaret,
Fay Kilminster (in Queensland) was probably another person:
Fay Kilminster
Event date: 06/02/1924
Event type: Birth registration
Registration details: 1924/B/83340 Mother: Theresa Josephine Crocker
Father/parent: Alfred Gordon Kilminster
Do you think this could be Horace Gordon?
https://swansonheritage.org.nz/places/auckland/people/knox-memorial-park/
"The Knox Memorial Park is named after the Knox family who ran a general store on the opposite corner for over 50 years. Robert Knox had brought the business from James Patterson Sinclair who had set it up in about 1886. (....)
Over the years, the store changed hands several times until it was closed in 1958. In 1960 it was bought by Mr H G Kilmister who operated a bottle and scrap metal business. By 1970 Mr Kilmister had converted the old store within its shell into a bungalow."
And this
Bay of Plenty Beacon, Volume 14, Issue 79, 21 December 1949, Page 4
"Fire Destroys House At Waimana
When it. caught fire at about 10 p.m. on Sunday a house owned by Mr L. Kilminster, Waimana,- was completely destroyed. Despite some desperate attempts nothing was saved."
Bay of Plenty Beacon, Volume 14, Issue 82, 6 January 1950, Page 1
"THANKS I the undersigned on behalf of myself and family, wish to express my sincere thanks to the people of Taneatua and district for the sympathy and assistance given us in the recent loss of our home and ask that this may be accepted as a personal acknowledgment. 18 Signed, H. G. KILMISTER.
Mr Kilmister, who is a farmer, was away from the house at the time of the outbreak fishing and when he returned he found the building in flames."
F. Kilmister (Fay?)
WAIMANA NEWS
Opotiki News, Volume XIII, Issue 1257, 28 February 1950, Page 3
ANNUAL SCHOOL PICNIC
The Waimana School, picnie was
held in a paddock
on Mr. Woolfield's farm, recently
and the day was spent pleasantly by young and older folk.
(...)
The results of the races were:-
(...)
Girls 9 and 10 also: F. Kilmister
1, M. Onekana 2, E. Te Papa 3.
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Could anyone with access to Ancestry check New Zealand, City & Area Directories, 1866-1954 for
Lawr G Kilmister - 5 entries
Hrce G Kilmister - 1 entry
(if allowed here)?
Thanks
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Could anyone with access to Ancestry check New Zealand, City & Area Directories, 1866-1954 for
Lawr G Kilmister - 5 entries
Hrce G Kilmister - 1 entry
(if allowed here)?
Thanks
The Ancestry.com index ... tells you this is a FREE search.
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Could anyone with access to Ancestry check New Zealand, City & Area Directories, 1866-1954 for
Lawr G Kilmister - 5 entries
Hrce G Kilmister - 1 entry
(if allowed here)?
Thanks
The Ancestry.com index ... tells you this is a FREE search.
Not here! I can see the index but not the images and there is one for Hrce Gordon and one for Lawr Gordon, both in 1954, which is really odd if they were the same person!
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1954
Kilmister Hrce G. , Mlk. Br.
124 Gt North Rd, Auckland (between Kirk & Brisbane Sts)
1954
Kilmister Lawr G. Fmr. (in the Taneatua Listing)
the other years have identical listing.
description of Taneatua in the directory is
TANEATUA
239 m. S.E. fr Auckland by rl
Whakatane co. Tel & M O
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Hi mckha489,
Thank you so much for this.
Mlk Br. ? Occupation? Business?
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Hi mckha489,
Thank you so much for this.
Mlk Br. ? Occupation? Business?
I think it might be “Milk Bar”
It seems to be in a small block of shops. - as far as I can tell.
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Thanks! Do you think I could find a list of abbreviations for this directory somewhere? Is this Wise's?
Maybe he left the family farm business and opened his own business in 1954. We know from the newspapers that he was a motorcycle aficionado and Milk Bars were the place where they used to hang out in the 1950s.
The New Zealand Gazette 28 April 1942 page 1201
Mitary Area No 2 PAEROA
616440 Kilmister, Lawrence Gordon, share-milker, care of H. S.
Mexted, Whakatane Rural Delivery.
https://www.nzlii.org/nz/other/nz_gazette/1942/43/31.pdf
Bay of Plenty Beacon,
Volume 11, Issue 43, 20 Volume 11, Issue 43, 20 Volume 11, Issue 43, 20 Volume 11, Issue 43, 20
June 1947, Page 8
SALE OF DAIRY HERD
On account of Mr L. G. Kilmister at Mr A. A. Reeeve's Yards, Taneatua, Monday, 23rd June, 1947, at 1 p. m. Acting under instructions from Mr L. G. Kilmister, whose share-milking contract has expired, we well sell at Taneatua his complete herd of Jersey Cross and Jersey Friesian Cross Cows and Heifers. (...)
Bay of Plenty Beacon,
Volume 08, Issue 93, 27 July Volume 08, Issue 93, 27 July Volume 08, Issue 93, 1945, Page 1
THE NATIONAL MUTUAL LIFE ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALASIA LIMITED
I hereby give notice that it is the intention of the Association to issue within FOURTEEN DAYS hereof a Copy Policy in place of Policy No. 1320903 on the life of Lawrence Gordon Kilmister declared to have been destroyed. W. A. MARTIN Manager for New Zealand, Dated 27th July, 1945.