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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Monmouthshire => Wales => Monmouthshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: deetur on Wednesday 26 March 25 20:22 GMT (UK)
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*edited to hopefully read better
Hi all,
I've recently discovered who my 2 x great grandfather was through the process of elimination of my DNA results (George Harold Warner).
Having purchased George's birth certificate (digitally) I'm now looking at his parents. His mother is listed as Sarah Warner (formerly Phillips). Father Robert Warner, a Butler.
She was apparently born abt 1851 in Blaenavon, Monmouthshire.
I have located Sarah in the right location for George's birth in 1881 which was Kingston Upon Thames. She was a cook working away from home.
George appears to have been baptised back in Monmouthshire.
In 1891 I have found Sarah in Penrhys, Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales (Tylorstown with Ferndale). George is with her and she appears to be married to Thomas Powell and has had additional children.
In 1901 she is in Ystradyfodwg, Glamorgan, Wales (Ferndale Christchurch) again with her Powell children and George (also listed as Powell but this is an error).
In 1911 she is at 26 Fountain Street Ferndale, Pontypridd with the youngest son.
In 1921 she is at 26 Fountain St, Ferndale listed as staying with her daughter Sarah Ann Pain (nee Powell).
I'm trying to locate the correct birth for her and then find her in the 1851 (depending on when born), 1861 and 1871 census. This way I'll be able to learn more about her family.
Is anyone able to help or make suggestions on how I discover which Sarah Phillips is the one I'm looking for please. I'd be ever so grateful of any help or suggestions.
Many thanks in advance.
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Rather confusing to read/understand
You say his Fathers name was never added to your g/gf birth cert & his mother was only 16
G/gfather was b Kingston on Thames 1881 - so mother was born approx 1865 Blaenavon
You say you have purchased "his birth cert" & his parents were Robert Warner & Sarah nee Phillips
Who's birth cert as you say above there was no fathers name on your g/gf birth cert? Do you mean the DNA father of your great g/f was Robert Warner & his parents were Robert & Sarah?
There is no marriage for a Robert Warner & Sarah Phillips & if Sarah Phillips was only born 1851 how can she be old enough to be the mother of a son fathering a child in 1881 to a girl b 1865?
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Hi, my apologies that you found my post confusing, I've edited the wording to hopefully make more sense.
The first birth certificate I mention is that of my great grandfather (James). I never knew who his father was until I recently discovered this via DNA. His father was George Harold Warner. It was George's name that was omitted from the birth certificate.
It is George's parents Sarah and Robert that I'm looking into. Sarah was born abt 1851 in Monmouthshire.
I took could not find a marriage and therefore do not believe she married Robert Warner and that she lied on the birth certificate of George that she was married. I also cannot find a marriage between her and Thomas Powell.
There are numerous Sarah Phillips in the Monmouth area which is why I'm looking for some advice as to the best way to find out which birth and therefore family is hers.
Many thanks 🙏🏻
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How do you know the father was George Harold Warner if he wasn’t on the birth certificate?
Do all the Powell children’s births have mothers maiden name as Phillips?
Is Sarah down as married or single in the 1881 census you have for her?
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I have come to the conclusion that he is the father through looking through both my mum's and my DNA matches and through a process of elimination working out that one close match in particular doesn't fit into any other line ... Then working through the relationships of that person and finding a male of the assumed correct age in the right area.
Then pulling together a tree using those names and working out other members of this tree. Then speaking with people from that area (as I obviously have relatives there from the mother's line in my tree) and then discovering more of my DNA matches match the names in that family.
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Do all the Powell children’s births have mothers maiden name as Phillips?
Is Sarah down as married or single in the 1881 census you have for her?
I will check the Powell children's births to confirm name was also Phillips.
In 1881 Sarah in unmarried, age 30.
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George Harold Warner was b 1881 Kingston upon Thames - mmn Phillips
Was James Henry Mason b Oswestry 1903?
You say "Sarah" was b 1851 Blaenavon & has George living with her in 1891 but she is now married to a Thomas Powell.
If she was married to Warner - she would have remarried as Warner. There is no Warner/Phillips marriage & no Thomas Powell marriage to either a Sarah Phillips or Warner
The 2 younger children on the 1891 entry do show mmn as Phillips
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In 1911 George Harold Warner is married but has a Joseph Phillips aged 25 b Mardy plus Joseph's wife living with him.
1891 shows Joseph as the son of Thomas & Naomi
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George Harold Warner was b 1881 Kingston upon Thames - mmn Phillips
Was James Henry Mason b Oswestry 1903?
You say "Sarah" was b 1851 Blaenavon & has George living with her in 1891 but she is now married to a Thomas Powell.
If she was married to Warner - she would have remarried as Warner. There is no Warner/Phillips marriage & no Thomas Powell marriage to either a Sarah Phillips or Warner
The 2 younger children on the 1891 entry do show mmn as Phillips
James Henry Mason was born 1899 in Ferndale to Ellen Mason (Nellie).
I have been unable to locate a marriage for either Warner or Powell also.
Thank you for confirming the two younger Powell children also have Sarah Phillips as their mother.
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The Sarah Phillips in 1871 as a visitor to the Jones family is a possible
Age 20 born Blaenavon Monmouthshire
Not many clues there unfortunately
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In 1911 George Harold Warner is married but has a Joseph Phillips aged 25 b Mardy plus Joseph's wife living with him.
1891 shows Joseph as the son of Thomas & Naomi
I think the Phillipses may be a coincidence - Joseph's father is b Llanelli so unlikely to be connected to Sarah
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As Sarah doesn't seem to have married either Warner or Powell - no marriage cert to give her fathers name
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Does George Harold Warner name a father on his marriage cert
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Does George Harold Warner name a father on his marriage cert
That's a good point. I'll have to see if anyone has a copy to check. If not I will have to order one.
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In 1911 George Harold Warner is married but has a Joseph Phillips aged 25 b Mardy plus Joseph's wife living with him.
1891 shows Joseph as the son of Thomas & Naomi
I think the Phillipses may be a coincidence - Joseph's father is b Llanelli so unlikely to be connected to Sarah
Thanks, I did have a quick look at this family but could not find an obvious connection.
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1881 - There is only one Robert Warner with an occ of Butler.
Aged 39 - single - b Cheltenham Gloucs & living with his mother & aunt in Gloucester
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1881 - There is only one Robert Warner with an occ of Butler.
Aged 39 - single - b Cheltenham Gloucs & living with his mother & aunt in Gloucester
Yes that's the only one I could find too. I believe his mother to be Sarah nee Masters.
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Sarah Warner died 1881 & left a will. Robert not the executor but entry mentions "certain conditions"
You can download a copy for £1.50.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
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Possible family living Crickhowell Breconshire in 1861. 1911 Sarah gives POB as Varteg, Monmouthshire
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8768/records/15288021
1861
Thomas Phillips 43 Head
Sarah Phillips 40 Wife
Sarah Phillips 10 Daughter Blaenafon, Monmouthshire
John Phillips 7 Son
Diana Phillips 5 Daughter
Eliza Phillips 3 Daughter
Jane Phillips 7mths Daughter
Cas
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1871 family are in Brynmawr, Llanelly, Breconshire, no Sarah
Thomas Phillips 63 Head
Sarah Phillips 49 Wife
John Phillips 17 Son
Celia Phillips 12 Daughter
Jane Phillips 10 Daughter
Evan Phillips 8 Son
1881 the family are living Rhymney, Bedwelty. (Think this is area for bapt of George)
Thomas Phillips 68 Head
Sarah Phillips 58 Wife
Evan Phillips 17 Son
Colin Phillips 22 Son (likely Celia/Cecilia)
Cas
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1851 family are living Varteg. Looks a good possible as 1911 Sarah gives Varteg as POB
Thomas Phillips 33 Head
Sarah Phillips 28 Wife
Julia Phillips 1 Daughter
Possible marriage Jun Q 1847 Abergavenny - Thomas Phillips & Sarah Evans same page
Added - likely marriage image online
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Aberystruth
Cas
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Sarah Warner died 1881 & left a will. Robert not the executor but entry mentions "certain conditions"
You can download a copy for £1.50.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
Thanks, I've ordered. Document pending. Look forward to seeing if this helps with Robert's family.
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Interesting thread as the following names appear in my Gilbert and Cecil research of this area - Thomas, Lewis, Jones, Rees, Morgan, Lloyd & Powell.
If you have any Gilbert or Cecil attachments please PM me as they may or may not have anything to do with Sarah Phillips.
Cheers
Jack Gee
interestingly one of our Cecil researchers is a Phillips.
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In June 1921 Sarah gives 69yrs 9mths as age, which is a possible fit for this birth.
PHILLIPS, SARAH mmn EVANS
GRO Reference: 1851 D Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 26 Page 19
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MON/Llanover
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Possible family living Crickhowell Breconshire in 1861. 1911 Sarah gives POB as Varteg, Monmouthshire
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/8768/records/15288021
1861
Thomas Phillips 43 Head
Sarah Phillips 40 Wife
Sarah Phillips 10 Daughter Blaenafon, Monmouthshire
John Phillips 7 Son
Diana Phillips 5 Daughter
Eliza Phillips 3 Daughter
Jane Phillips 7mths Daughter
Cas
Thanks for this, I appreciate it and will look into this family. Thank you 🙏🏻
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Interesting thread as the following names appear in my Gilbert and Cecil research of this area - Thomas, Lewis, Jones, Rees, Morgan, Lloyd & Powell.
If you have any Gilbert or Cecil attachments please PM me as they may or may not have anything to do with Sarah Phillips.
Cheers
Jack Gee
interestingly one of our Cecil researchers is a Phillips.
Thanks I will get in touch if I come across these names. Thank you.