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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: rotosis on Tuesday 25 March 25 00:32 GMT (UK)
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Hi
I was reading a forum about the GRO BMD and the missing maiden name of the mother on some birth registrations. It mentioned it may hint at the child being illegitimate. However on the FREE BMD the maiden name is stated. So was curious as to which is correct or if one has been amended.
Reason I'm asking is due to the baby possibly belonging to an older sister and being brought up by their parents as a sibling rather than grandchild. The grandmothers maiden name is on the Free BMD. The other reason I'm asking is due to DNA of cousins I've never heard of and I'm still trying to connect the dots to find an answer. The oldest sister was 19 when the child was born and the mother or grandmother was 42. There were 12 years between the baby and the youngest sister.
I know the child could still belong to a woman of 42 yrs.
I have also done an in depth genealogy research for the family prior to doing DNA.
Thanks for any help.
Rotosis
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I presume the birth was post 1911?
12 years between myself and older sibling, my Mother was 45 so not unusual.
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Birth transcriptions pre June qtr 1911 do not show mmn. You have to use GRO online. If no mmn is shown on GRO online pre 1911 then the child was illegitimate.
From Mid-1911 - mmn is shown irrespective of whether the child was illegitimate
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Some years 1920s and 1930s I think don't show mmn on the gro site unless you key it in. Is that the time frame you're looking at?
Jane :-)
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Some years 1920s and 1930s I think don't show mmn on the gro site unless you key it in. Is that the time frame you're looking at?
Jane :-)
I think that is the years for anyone who is possibly still living. GRO did have them on originally then removed them :). It is the unwritten hundred year rule ::)
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However on the FREE BMD the maiden name is stated.
Just to be clear is this a different surname to which the birth is registered ie Lesley Smith with mothers name Jones or Lesley Jones with mothers name Jones?
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Thank you all for your replies.
It was the same name at birth... never changed and this daughter never married.
The child was born in 1934 and on GRO the MMN is missing so wasn't sure if it mean illegitimate or not especially because a maiden name is on FREE BMD... Because they could be their parents child re age range of both possible mothers.... daughter was a few days for 19 and her mother was 42/3 makes me wonder who was the child's mother.
The child died a few years ago.
I also have weird DNA for the family line which matches nothing I've researched over the years. I have the paper trail and all cousins etc...
This child is the only one who could be born outside marriage and brought up as the grandparents child. There are other things which are weird which probably only make sense to me.
Thank you to everyone for replying.
Rotosis
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You can order a pdf copy of the birth cert which costs £8 - full price would be £12.50
If it was her parents child - wouldn’t the birth reg show her mothers maiden name? Unless her parents had the same surnames when they married her mothers maiden name would be different.
If it was the daughters child - although registered in the same surname - the daughter wasn’t married so there would be no other maiden name.
(Eg). Male Bloggs marries female Anderson
Bloggs children born to the marriage will show Bloggs with mmn Anderson
An unmarried Bloggs daughter then has an illegitimate child. Birth is registered as Bloggs but mmn is also Bloggs
I don’t think the mothers age should feature here - my paternal great grandmother was 46 when she had my grandfather & my own mother was 39 when I was born.
What can’t be ruled out is the parents illegally registered the child as their own in which case the birth cert should show a fathers name
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Hi and thanks for your reply
I will get a copy of the birth, however i think it may turn out to be the one with the maiden name like on the FREE BMD website, rather than without a mothers maiden name ( as you said pointed out to me she wasn't married... which i didn't click to at the time of writing)
If I get a birth cert with the maiden name then I will have to puzzle out the DNA another way because I'm still trying to make sense of it.
Thanks again.
Rotosis
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Sorry but am still not clear if the entry with a maiden name has a different surname ie
Lesley Smith mothers name Jones
Or the same surname ie Lesley Jones mothers name Jones
Can you clarify which is the case for us please?
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Apologies
On the GRO website (changed names) BRAND James then the date and quarter and no mmn
On the FREE BMD website it says BRAND James under the date and quarter and there is a mothers maiden name (changed again) KENDALL
The page numbers etc are the same on both sites.
I can buy the PDF cert though I have a feeling it will have the maiden name on it. However I know paper documents can be wrong (my partners paper trail is wrong on three lines... still proving two)
The reason I am asking if the child could be illegitimate is due to DNA which I have been unable to match up yet (still working on it), cousins I've never heard of...at present i am building trees for these cousins to try and work things out.
Hope this helps.
Rotosis
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Other child Margaret has no mmn on GRO either but is on FreeBMD
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Thanks for your reply
However do they also have DNA that doesn't match or seem to link to her family because this is part of my issue.
If this is possible for this child or true...then I might be able to find the DNA connection.
Thanks again.
Rotosis
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Thank you for clarifying, I understand what you are saying now.