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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Daiwalker on Saturday 22 March 25 18:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: Daiwalker on Saturday 22 March 25 18:36 GMT (UK)
Hi All, I'm trying to locate the whereabout of 2, Old Harp Cottage, Troedyrhiw, Merthyr. Thanks in advance for any help  :) kind regards
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: softly softly on Saturday 22 March 25 18:52 GMT (UK)
Your not looking for people who lived there are you.

SS
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 22 March 25 19:07 GMT (UK)
The next property on the 1911 census is 1 Tydfil Terrace, so I suspect the Old Harp and associated cottages might be where there's now a garage on the main road through the village
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: AlanBoyd on Saturday 22 March 25 19:44 GMT (UK)
In support of that theory, in 1921, 1 and 2 Old Harp Cottages are followed by addresses in Willow Terrace which is across the road from the garage. I haven’t found any sign of them on any map however.
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 22 March 25 19:45 GMT (UK)
1881 Census - addresses read

12 Quarry Row
Old Harp No 1 (thatched house by roadside)
Old Harp No 2
Tai Winches?

A broad spread of electoral rolls show "1 and 2 Old Harp, Plymouth Ward"  - yet to see mention of an Old Harp Cottage
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 22 March 25 22:21 GMT (UK)
I wouldn't be surprised if 1 and 2 Old Harp were also referred to as Old Harp Cottages

If you look at https://maps.nls.uk/view/102182700 you can see a  building on the main road just outside the village heading away from Tydfil Terrace which could be them. Quarry Row is the uphil northeast of that block
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Saturday 22 March 25 22:25 GMT (UK)
This from a 1901 newspaper obit - the Welsh newspaper site sems to be having some techie issues so I can only grab this excerpt from the search results

..daughter of Rees Jones, of Brith- waenydd Farm, and the young couple lived in Bridge street next door to the saddler's shop. It was here that the Rev Rees Morgan was born. His parents afterwards removed to what is still known as the Old Harp,on the Cardiff-road, an old house nestling by the rubbish tips created by the Dyffryn Blast Furnaces, where the father continued his labours as schoolmaster

Also, from 1910

Troedyrhiw Building Club propose building 34 houses on the west side of the main road, near the Old Harp, at Troedyrhiw

Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 23 March 25 11:04 GMT (UK)
I wouldn't be surprised if 1 and 2 Old Harp were also referred to as Old Harp Cottages


I'm treating "Old Harp Cottages" as "1/2 Old Harp".
I recall one electoral roll that gave the address "Duffryn, Old Harp"" - think it was the Edgar family who seemed to be there a while.
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 23 March 25 11:09 GMT (UK)
Problem - the URL is not delivering the correct image. The item is from an 1890 Welsh language publication "Tywysydd y plant" and links to the Morgan family mentioned at post #6.

" ... the Old Harp between Troedrhiw and Dyffryn ..."
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 23 March 25 11:31 GMT (UK)
Post #4 has "Tai Winches (Winches Houses)" appearing immediately after "Old Harp" on the '81 Census.
The Town Plans for Merthyr extend as far as Lower Pentre Bâch, falling just short of Troedrhiw. However, on the eastern edge the last section of the Plans it shows the start of "Winches Row".

https://viewer.library.wales/4715635#?xywh=11803%2C3990%2C4605%2C2981&cv=66

Added - just spotted Winches Row on the map at post #5.
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 23 March 25 12:48 GMT (UK)
This shows a "Capel" on the site of "Saron Chapel" which is marked on later maps.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102182700#zoom=6.7&lat=3054&lon=6548&layers=BT

Mabel,
Could you pl check this item from Welsh Journals - ""Tywysydd y plant 1890.".
https://journals.library.wales/search?rows=10&sort=score&order=desc&alt=&query=%22old%20harp%22&range[min]=1735&range[max]=2007&decade[]=1890&page=1
Would you take it to mean that Saron is sited on the Old Harp or that it simply kicked off there?

Added - seems there's a problem with URLs.
Mabel,
You can find the article on Welsh Journals searching for  "Old Harp"
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 23 March 25 21:47 GMT (UK)
The 1901 item I had was the Weekly Mail and was a summary of the life of the recently departed Rev Rees Morgan of St Clears, but born and brought up in Troedyrhiw

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3374589/3374599/237/old%2BOR%2Bharp%2BAND%2Btroedyrhiw

Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Sunday 23 March 25 22:00 GMT (UK)
This shows a "Capel" on the site of "Saron Chapel" which is marked on later maps.
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102182700#zoom=6.7&lat=3054&lon=6548&layers=BT

Mabel,
Could you pl check this item from Welsh Journals - ""Tywysydd y plant 1890.".
https://journals.library.wales/search?rows=10&sort=score&order=desc&alt=&query=%22old%20harp%22&range[min]=1735&range[max]=2007&decade[]=1890&page=1
Would you take it to mean that Saron is sited on the Old Harp or that it simply kicked off there?

Added - seems there's a problem with URLs.
Mabel,
You can find the article on Welsh Journals searching for  "Old Harp"

The item from Tywysydd y Plant also relates the life history of Rees Morgan. The end of the item on the page linked to says:

According the the History of Independent Churches, Mr Morgan's parents were a great support to establishing the cause in Troedyrhiw, for it was in their house - the Old Harp between Troedyrhiw and Dyffryn - that Saron started. Mr Methusalem Jones, Bethesda, Merthyr and the supporting preachers connected to Bethesda, would preach in the Old harp every Sabbath evening for several years, and the Sunday School was set up in the school house where his father ran the daily school. His father and mother were among the 29 members that established Saron. Mr Morgan remembers being a very small child with his father in the midst of thorns and growth measuring the land where the chapel and cemetery now stand in order to prepare the request to the Dowlais Company for the land to build a place of worship

So I think it's clear the group that set up Saron started holding their meetings in the Old Harp before they got the land where Saron stood (and the cemetery remains)
Title: Re: Old Harp Cottage
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 24 March 25 08:57 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the confirmation.