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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: worth on Saturday 22 March 25 11:32 GMT (UK)
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Hi all,
Im looking for the above person but going around in circles so thought i would ask for help. John Thomas Smith was born around 1884 in West Bromwich Staffordshire and he married Gertrude Annie Knight in 1907 in West Bromwich but he married under the name of Thomas Smith (transcription only), occupation Puddler. They had 3 children, Louisa born 1910 in West Bromwich, James Henry born 1914 in Monmouthshire (my line) and William Harold born 1917 in Monmouthshire. James and William were both baptised in Wales and the address was given as Woodside Terrace Monmouthshire. In 1911 he is down as Thomas Smith living on Brett Street Staffordshire with wife Gertrude, and 2 daughters. He died sometime between 1917 and 1920. Gertrude Annie his wife remarried as a widow in 1920 to Edward Boughton in Staffordshire. I cannot find John Thomas Smith before 1911, which is where i need the help, im not sure weather to look under the name John Thomas or Thomas Smith so another pair of eyes would be great. Thankyou in advance xx
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If you have his marriage certificate - you could try searching the earlier census records with his surname, birthplace and father's name.
(John Smith is SO frustrating as I know!)
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Children
Annie Louisa 1908 reg West Bromwich (Ada in 1911)
Louisa 1910 reg. West Bromwich
John Thomas reg. 1911 Newport Mon Born 29 August 1911 at the Workhouse Hospital father Thomas Smith 30 Woodside
Alice born 16 May 1913 W.H Hospital 4 Woodside Father Thomas Smith and Gertrude Annie
Martha born 16 May 1913 W.H. Hospital 4 Woodside ditto died 17 May 1913
James Henry bap 13 January 1915 father John Thomas Smith and Gertrude Annie
William Harold born 25 February 1917 W.H. Hospital - 4 Woodside of John Thomas and Gertrude Annie
Father is Thomas Smith until 1913 then he becomes John Thomas Smith 1915-1917
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Have you eliminated this death
Sep qtr 1919
Smith, John T age 37
W. Bromwich reg district 6b 687
You really need the marriage certificate and hope that his father is named
I see it was registry office
SMITH Thomas
KNIGHT Gertrude A
1907
West Bromwich Register Office (WBRO)
Sandwell Register Office WBRO/45/117
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Thanks for all your help its appreciated.
amondg - The son that you found ,John Thomas born born in 1911 was living his his grandparents in 1921 they were John and Harriet Dellicott, turns out that Harriet Dellicott was a Smith before this marriage and the mother of my elusive John Thomas Smith/Thomas, so again thanks loads for all your help xx
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If his mother is Harriet, there is this possible family in 1901, Thomas a foundry labourer and father William H a puddler.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSQB-BL6?lang=en
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and 1911 with Smith children in household
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWW8-C6K?lang=en
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Osprey thats the correct family xx
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1881 Marriage of William Henry Smith and Harriet is on FreeREG with Fathers names/occp's etc.
+ Fred from 1891 Census was Bapt as Arthur Frederick 18 Sep 1889.
SMITH, ARTHUR FREDERICK mmn BRITTEN
GRO Reference: 1889 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 800
MITH, SIDNEY mmn BRITTON
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 876
Trish :)
EDIT William Henry Smith was buried 25 Jan 1906 Heath Lane Cemetery, West Bromwich
Address 2 Great Bridge Street
Age 45
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Off FreeREG
Heath Lane Cemetery West Bromwich
Burial 27.9.1919 John Thomas Smith aged 37 of 108 Hallam Street West Bromwich
and a possible baptisms (you really do need to get the marriage certificate)
St John The Evangelist West Bromwich
baptism 20.6.1883 John Thomas Smith born 31.3.1883 parents Thomas and Sarah of 29 Albert Street labourer - may have been a private baptism
All Saints, West Bromwich
Baptism 1.9.1985 John Thomas Smith born 16.8.1885 parents William and Fanny of New Street miner
Willow x
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Off FreeREG
Heath Lane Cemetery West Bromwich
Burial 27.9.1919 John Thomas Smith aged 37 of 108 Hallam Street West Bromwich
wife Emma Jane and sons John Thomas (c1907) and George (c1913)
Marriage Sep qtr 1907
SMITH John Thomas
TIMMINS Emma Jane
W. Bromwich 6b 1578
SMITH, JOHN THOMAS mmn TIMMINS
GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 859
SMITH, GEORGE mmn TIMMINS
GRO Reference: 1913 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 1778
Address agrees on later census
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Nice one Rosie off their marriage on FreeREG Johns father is down as Thomas so the John we are searching for (if I have the right baptism) his parents are William and Fanny
Willow x
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This is fun I can find William (b1860 West Brom) and Fanny (b1862 West Brom) on the 1891 & 1901 census but absolutely no sign of John/Thomas with them on any
Willow x
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Ok now I am a little confused - why do you think his first name is John? He is down as Thomas on the 1911 census and the marriage transcript has no mention of John on either
If his first name is Thomas there is a Thomas on FreeREG (and the 1891 & 1901 census) baptised Greets Green Primitive Methodist born 26.9.1883 baptised 17.10.1883 parents Charles and Jane labourer of Greets Green
Willow x
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I think it is because of the childrens baptisms Willow ;D.
Children
Annie Louisa 1908 reg West Bromwich (Ada in 1911)
Louisa 1910 reg. West Bromwich
John Thomas reg. 1911 Newport Mon Born 29 August 1911 at the Workhouse Hospital father Thomas Smith 30 Woodside
Alice born 16 May 1913 W.H Hospital 4 Woodside Father Thomas Smith and Gertrude Annie
Martha born 16 May 1913 W.H. Hospital 4 Woodside ditto died 17 May 1913
James Henry bap 13 January 1915 father John Thomas Smith and Gertrude Annie
William Harold born 25 February 1917 W.H. Hospital - 4 Woodside of John Thomas and Gertrude Annie
Father is Thomas Smith until 1913 then he becomes John Thomas Smith 1915-1917
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Thanks for all your help its appreciated.
amondg - The son that you found ,John Thomas born born in 1911 was living his his grandparents in 1921 they were John and Harriet Dellicott, turns out that Harriet Dellicott was a Smith before this marriage and the mother of my elusive John Thomas Smith/Thomas, so again thanks loads for all your help xx
Presumably then this is Thomas in 1901
William H Smith- 40 occ Puddler in forge bn Birmingham
Harriett Smith 39 bn Tipton, Staffordshire
Thomas Smith 17 occ Labourer in foundry bn West Bromwich
Louisa Smith 15 bn West Bromwich
Frederick Smith 11 bn West Bromwich
Annie Smith 5 bn West Bromwich
Sydney Smith 1 bn West Bromwich
Andrew Blick Boarder 40 bn Smethwick, Staffordshire
RG13
Piece 2720
Folio 169
Page 36
...
SMITH, JOHN THOMAS mmn BRITTON
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 817
SMITH, LOUISA mmn BRITTON
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 826
SMITH, SIDNEY BRITTON
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 876
...
Marriages Sep 1881
BRITTON Harriett
Smith William Henry
W. Bromwich 6b 915
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If his mother is Harriet, there is this possible family in 1901, Thomas a foundry labourer and father William H a puddler.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSQB-BL6?lang=en
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Sorry I did not notice you had posted this :(
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Probably thats where I am getting confused then I have been looking for John Thomas pre 1913 when I should have been looking for Thomas ::)
Willow x
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I am assuming that pre 1913 is possibly sorted, I have to be honest I did not read it properly before my last posts ::). It looks as though we are still needing him later, was he in WW1.
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I'm wondering if he died in Wales
Willow x