RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: MJPilling25 on Monday 17 March 25 17:28 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I've been researching the Frizell line of my family who it appears from the land deeds of the area were part of the 1709 Palatine settlement. I would be very interested to hear from anyone who can help with sourcing the parish records for St Marys Church of Ireland Old Ross. I have tried contacting the Rector there but unfortunately haven't had a reply. It also looks like the church is no longer used. I would also like to contact Roots member Summerhill https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=505146.0 about any other local resources that may help locate birth/death entries etc.
Any help gratefully received :)
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It would be helpful if you could indicate what period you are interested in. Especially what information you already have
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As for New Ross CofI, the living appears to be vacant. I would be surprised if it is permanently closed
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Odd find on Family search site ???
Bearing in mind you've not given us any time frame
Name Joseph Frizell
Sex Male
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Elmes
Spouse's Sex Female
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 30 May 1726
Event Place Whitechurch, New Ross, Wexford, County Wexford, Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HPTP-XP3Z?lang=en
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Event Place Whitechurch, New Ross, Wexford, County Wexford
FamilySearch at it again ...... New Ross is not in Wexford town.
Whitechurch townland
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelburne/whitechurch/whitechurch/whitechurch/
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No time frame again ???
Name Joseph* Frizzell
Father's Name Josephi Frizzell
Father's Sex Male
Mother's Name Anasta** Kehoe
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 17 Jan 1822
Event Place Old Ross, County Wexford, Ireland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:62CD-G456?lang=en
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Quote from above
"FamilySearch at it again ...... New Ross is not in Wexford town."
My reply does not say "Wexford Town" its says "Wexford, County Wexford, Ireland"
New Ross
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › New_Ross
New Ross is a town in Southwest County Wexford, Ireland
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Quote from above
"FamilySearch at it again ...... New Ross is not in Wexford town."
My reply does not say "Wexford Town" its says "Wexford, County Wexford, Ireland"
Wexford, Co. Wexford is Wexford Town!
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There are 7 Frizell MLs in Ferns.
The online index shows 9, but that is for Ferns, Ossory and Leighlin. All listed as "Ossory" (sic).
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tpv/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tpv/)
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Event Place Whitechurch, New Ross, Wexford, County Wexford
FamilySearch at it again ...... New Ross is not in Wexford town.
Whitechurch townland
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelburne/whitechurch/whitechurch/whitechurch/
Though the reference would be to Whitechurch CofI/civil parish
https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/whitechurch2/ (https://www.townlands.ie/wexford/whitechurch2/)
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I would also like to contact Roots member Summerhill https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=505146.0 about any other local resources that may help locate birth/death entries etc.
Once you have a few more posts here, you will be able to send a direct/personal message on this site.
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In Cantwell's "Memorial of the Dead", the only Frizell entry I see is in Deralossory, Co. Wicklow.
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William Frizelle, 1851 Valuation Office
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246842_01074.pdf (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246842_01074.pdf)
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No Frizell entries in Ferns Wills.
No Wexford Frizelles in Prerogative Wills.
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Thank you everyone appreciate all of your replies.
Apologies, the timeframe I'm looking at is between 1709 and my 3 x gt. grandad Robert Nicolls Frizell born 1796. His grandparents were Joseph Frizell and Mary Nicolls married in 1765 (Ossory), Joseph being the older son of Joseph Frizell and Elizabeth Elmes. Looking at both ends of the century I'm trying to fully establish that these Frizell's who were given settlement lands on Able Ram's land in Bantry townland, Dunamore/Goldenstown, Old Ross were Palatine refugees (can there be another explanation - were they already farmers in this area prior to 1709?). If they were part of the immigration could Joseph (married to Elizabeth Elmes) be the brother of William Frizell grandather of the Castlekevin Frizells? Similarly is Cornelia Frizell b.1690 married to William Elmes Joseph's sister? Cornelia made a will in 1769 how do I get hold of a copy? I've matched up the later Frizells on the Ferns index to a Frizell line in the same area and would be grateful for any help trying to access copies of baptisms for St Mary's Old Ross or any thoughts of where to look next. The Nicolls family were a military family with extensive ties to Duncannon Fort and were also landholders nearby. I suspect Joseph & Mary Nicholl's son may have been in the military (Robert's father) he died young from what I can tell hopefully not a victim of Scullabogue.
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Thank you everyone appreciate all of your replies.
Apologies, the timeframe I'm looking at is between 1709 and my 3 x gt. grandad Robert Nicolls Frizell born 1796. His grandparents were Joseph Frizell and Mary Nicolls married in 1765 (Ossory), Joseph being the older son of Joseph Frizell and Elizabeth Elmes. Looking at both ends of the century I'm trying to fully establish that these Frizell's who were given settlement lands on Able Ram's land in Bantry townland, Dunamore/Goldenstown, Old Ross were Palatine refugees (can there be another explanation - were they already farmers in this area prior to 1709?). If they were part of the immigration could Joseph (married to Elizabeth Elmes) be the brother of William Frizell grandather of the Castlekevin Frizells? Similarly is Cornelia Frizell b.1690 married to William Elmes Joseph's sister? Cornelia made a will in 1769 how do I get hold of a copy? I've matched up the later Frizells on the Ferns index to a Frizell line in the same area and would be grateful for any help trying to access copies of baptisms for St Mary's Old Ross or any thoughts of where to look next. The Nicolls family were a military family with extensive ties to Duncannon Fort and were also landholders nearby. I suspect Joseph & Mary Nicholl's son may have been in the military (Robert's father) he died young from what I can tell hopefully not a victim of Scullabogue.
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His grandparents were Joseph Frizell and Mary Nicolls married in 1765 (Ossory), J
I don't think so. They were married in Ferns, not Ossory - meaning the diocese of Ferns, not the village.
Also, the bride's name was Nicholls.
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Similarly is Cornelia Frizell b.1690 married to William Elmes Joseph's sister? Cornelia made a will in 1769 how do I get hold of a copy?
You can't. Lost 1922. Unless somehow otherwise recorded - e.g. in Registry of Deeds.
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Looking at both ends of the century I'm trying to fully establish that these Frizell's who were given settlement lands on Able Ram's land in Bantry townland, Dunamore/Goldenstown, Old Ross were Palatine refugees (can there be another explanation - were they already farmers in this area prior to 1709?).
The Frizells were Palatine colonial expropriators.
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Bernard Brown has written extensively about the Palatine settlement in his book Old Ross The Town That Never Was. It is out of print now but available in Wexford County Library , Mallin Street , Wexford. It can also be obtained through interlibrary loan. The post of Rector for New Ross Union is vacant at the moment. But the New Ross Union of Parishes consists of New Ross, Old Ross, Kilesk , Whitechurch, Fethard on Sea. The Church of Ireland Parish registers nationwide are currently being digitised in collaberation between the Irish Government and the RCB Library, Rathfarnham , Dublin 14 they are expected to be online within the next year or so. However the RCB Library holds all the parish registers so if you contact them they should be able to help you. The Church of Ireland website will have the contact details for the RCB Library.
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This article may be of some interest
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~hartrickclan/genealogy/article7.htm (https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~hartrickclan/genealogy/article7.htm)
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An article about the Hartricks of New Ross
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~hartrickclan/genealogy/article7.htm (https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~hartrickclan/genealogy/article7.htm)
And of Ireland
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~hartrickclan/genealogy/article1.htm (https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~hartrickclan/genealogy/article1.htm)
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Again thank you, I find the search for ancestors an addictive quest of endless clues! Bit by bit we piece things together but it's the help of others who've been on a similar journey who can really unlock things.
As a newbie I haven't yet worked out how to reply to you individually some replies as follows:
Wexflyer: Joseph Frizell and Mary Nichols (mispelt Nicholls) I have triangulated various records and sources including land deed references and birth records to establish this is the correct Mary, including unique documentary ties to the Nichols family, family names including Gustavus and the double barrelling go Robert Nichols-Frizell's surname.
There is a reference to Cornelia Frizell's will on another Roots 'Frizell' chat (Summerhill included in) but it looks like the person who had a copy may be deceased. I recognise it may have been destroyed in the 1922 fire but would be interested to find out if there may be a way to double check or if anyone else may have a copy.
Palatine connection I have only recently discovered this tragic period in Irish history, my mother believing the family to be of Irish descent, if they were indeed Palatine I would be grateful for any suggestions of where I might find them on shipping list, all of the ones I've checked so far don't list any variant of Frizell apart from the Adam Fissel on the Southwell estate in Rathkeale. One of the sermons from a priest of St Mary's includes that the Palatine's settled on Able Ram's lands were shipwrecked off the coast. Is there somewhere that a shipwreck of the coast of Wexford for 1709/1710 would be listed?
Thank you for the articles about the Hartnick's/Ram estate I have these and a growing collection of histories including the Old Ross the town that never was. Interesting it is this book that plants the seed of doubt about them being 100% Palatine as little is known about their early 1709/10 origins compared to other families in the book. Could they have been Huguenots even? Any ideas about where to look next would be appreciated.
Thank you Summerhill for the suggestions I will look to follow them up re parish registers etc.
Many thanks again!
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I am researching the same Frizells and am persuaded that "my Frizelles" were originally Frasers from Scotland.
There is some very strong oral history from Frizells who migrated to various parts of the world that they were Frasers and from looking at some basic things about the Palantines, they don't seem to fit there. They were no doubt very entwined with the Palantines near Old Ross and Gorey, but I think that is because they were land managers and surveyors for Abel Ram. Many of my Frizelles have Fraser as a middlename.
I will attach a few things that I have found.
My own current area of interest is of linking "my" Frizelles to the Joseph, William and Sutton Frizells. Clearly they are related - they live in the same area and there are lots of other connections, but I am currently puzzled about the exact connection. My oldest confirmed Frizell is Charles Frizell Snr. who was a surveyor. (I think, but cannot 100% confirm that his father (also Charles) was the first Frizell from my branch to arrive in Ireland.) Charles Senior (the surveyor) lived about 1706 to 1775. His two sons Richard (1730-1804) and Charles Jnr (1738-1812) were also surveyors. Richard built a home, called Beaufort house in Rathfarnham, Dublin. (Beaufort was the land of the Frasers of Lovat). Charles Jnr built a house at Castlekevin in Wicklow. Ensuing generations seemed to all have sons named Charles and Richard, so things can get confusing.
Here is a deed that connects Richard Frizell, the surveyor, to William Frizell "the elder" and his sons William "the younger" and Charles. Deed 154675 1765 William Frizell Elder and Younger convey Old Ross Property to Richard Frizell, 22 March 1765, Transcripts of memorials of deeds, conveyances and wills, 1708-1929, 394, 154675, Film 008088419, Image 551, Family Search, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN1-89Q4-Z?i=550&cat=185720&lang=en
Maybe William the Elder and Charles Sr Surveyor were brothers? And I think William the Younger and his brother Charles had descendents named Joseph and Sutton and Richard, who are also confusing since there are many contemporaneous cousins with the same names.
Anyway, if anyone out there has information about exactly how the surveying Frizells fit in with the William and Josephs and Suttons, I would be grateful to hear about it.
I have tons of other Frizell research that I am happy to share. My problem is I am a dogged researcher, but not a great organizer. So currently I am trying to create a well documented tree on RootsMagic, which I will eventually share via Ancestry or Gedcom to help others find my research and collaborate. I am also open to just dumping some of my documents into shared Google folders or drop box.
Anyway, take a look at the deed I reference above and also the attachments I am uploading about the Fraser and Scottish connections and be in touch if you want to collaborate further.
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Here is another attachment about the Scottish connection.