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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Calleva on Sunday 16 March 25 10:15 GMT (UK)

Title: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: Calleva on Sunday 16 March 25 10:15 GMT (UK)
I’m trying to find out the site of a Temperance Working Men’s Restaurant, or possibly
‘Dining Club’ in Forres, Morayshire during the early to mid 1880s.

My GGF, George Smith, was manager at that time.

I’ve been unsuccessful in tracking it down (pure guess it was in the High Street) and grateful for the experts on this fantastic site to point me in the right direction.

Many thanks,
Stuart
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: nanny jan on Sunday 16 March 25 11:14 GMT (UK)
It might be listed in a Trade Directory.
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: Milliepede on Sunday 16 March 25 13:38 GMT (UK)
Or on a census.  Not sure if you can search Scottish census in the same way as English ones.
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: dowdstree on Sunday 16 March 25 14:53 GMT (UK)
I found this George Smith on the 1891 Scotland Census -

George Smith age 40 born Inverallan, Inverness- shire. Others on the census are his wife Elsie age 31
son Alexander age 2 and son John C age 11 months.

George's occupation is given as Dining Room Keeper and the address is 1 Cumming Street, Forres.

Hope this helps and it is your GG Father,

Dorrie
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 16 March 25 15:38 GMT (UK)
Snipped from "DEATHS" in the Elgin Courant & Morayshire Advertiser, 20 Sep 1889.

Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 16 March 25 15:57 GMT (UK)
Snipped from Northern Scot & Moray & Nairn Express, 10 Sep 1887
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: AlanBoyd on Sunday 16 March 25 18:17 GMT (UK)
Valuation Rolls 1895 have this entry:
Cumming Street
House and Garden, No, 1
proprietor: James Stewart, Flesher, Forres
tenant & occupier: George Smith, Temperance Dining Rooms

added: no equivalent result for 1885 or for 1905
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: AlanBoyd on Sunday 16 March 25 18:31 GMT (UK)
Here is a view of Cumming Street on the 1895 reprint of the 1876 25 inch map. Looking at Cumming Street now on Street View –and assuming the numbering hasn't changed– number 1 is on the SW side of the street and is the first house after the house on the corner of High Street and Cumming Street i.e. the first house on that side fully on Cumming Street.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/74478415#zoom=6.4&lat=2826&lon=13440&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/74478415#zoom=6.4&lat=2826&lon=13440&layers=BT)
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 17 March 25 09:51 GMT (UK)
Snipped from "Forres Elgin & Nairn Gazette ...," - Nov 1893 and Apr 1898   
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 17 March 25 10:15 GMT (UK)
The "Public Supply Stores" opened Feb 1888 at 235 High Street, Forres.
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: Calleva on Monday 17 March 25 10:39 GMT (UK)
I found this George Smith on the 1891 Scotland Census -

George Smith age 40 born Inverallan, Inverness- shire. Others on the census are his wife Elsie age 31
son Alexander age 2 and son John C age 11 months.

George's occupation is given as Dining Room Keeper and the address is 1 Cumming Street, Forres.

Hope this helps and it is your GG Father,

Dorrie

Thank you very much Dorrie. Yes that is him, it was kind of you to find him in the 1891 Census as presumably you’ve used up some credits on SP.

I’ll now respond separately to the other people who have been good enough to help, very much appreciated.

Stuart
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: Calleva on Monday 17 March 25 10:48 GMT (UK)
Here is a view of Cumming Street on the 1895 reprint of the 1876 25 inch map. Looking at Cumming Street now on Street View –and assuming the numbering hasn't changed– number 1 is on the SW side of the street and is the first house after the house on the corner of High Street and Cumming Street i.e. the first house on that side fully on Cumming Street.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/74478415#zoom=6.4&lat=2826&lon=13440&layers=BT (https://maps.nls.uk/view/74478415#zoom=6.4&lat=2826&lon=13440&layers=BT)

Thank you so much for providing the map, no 1 Cumming Street in Forres still exists. Also the other information you found is terrific.

By a very nice co-incidence I am writing this reply on a bus going to Aberdeen Royal Infirmary having been dropped off this morning by my wife at the bus stop in Forres opposite 1 Cumming Street!

(warranted true!)

Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: Calleva on Monday 17 March 25 11:02 GMT (UK)
The "Public Supply Stores" opened Feb 1888 at 235 High Street, Forres.

Thank you very much for the information gleaned from various publications, it helps to bring things to life! By another nice coincidence I will be walking this afternoon through Duthie Park in Aberdeen from the ARI to the Clan Cancer centre. I know from previous visits there is a temperance fountain in the park which I now realise is contemporary with my GGF’s involvement with a Temperance Dining Room.

https://canmore.org.uk/site/169185/aberdeen-duthie-park-temperance-drinking-fountain

I remember being amused at the inscription ‘wine is a mocker’ on the fountain but no doubt this quote from a Biblical Proverb was powerful at the time for those who’d signed the pledge!

All the best
Stuart
Title: Re: How to find a Temperance Working Men’s Dining Room in Forres in 1880s?
Post by: hanes teulu on Monday 17 March 25 15:39 GMT (UK)
There was a Temperance Hotel in Forres - William Naughty's - seen here on this '68 Town Plan. William is there on the '71 and '81 Census, 225 High St. In '61 he was on North St.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/74415813

Re.temperance, my abiding memory is arriving late in Birmingham, well after closing time, but taking comfort in that the Hotel would come to the rescue. It was Temperance - never forgave my colleague who had done the booking.