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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: nicdigby on Friday 14 March 25 17:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I have lots on this family, but am specifically looking for this one sibling's birth record.
Emily ALLEN. b. Southampton about 1900.
On the 1911 census, she is listed as being born in Soton, age 10, daughter. Oldest child. Her sister Ann is one year younger (I have got that birth record) Living with her mother Cecilia who is listed as head of house, but husband Henry ALLEN was away at sea (and died the next year; I have these records already and do not need anything else on the father's death or other siblings).
I have her death cert and it states that she died in 1918 of flu, mother Cecilia = correct person.
Other Anc users have Emily's birth as Q4 1900 2c, p.7. This is not correct though; on GRO it states the MMN is BILES and there are lot of other births of ALLENs with BILES as MMN : separate family.
The correct family's siblings all have MMN as REED or REID.
I cannot locate the correct cert. I have tried:
REED and REID variations.
Widening birth locations (although 1911 census states birth location of All Saints ward, Soton)
Free BMD, Anc and GRO.
Using ALLAN instead of ALLEN
Have also tried using REED and REID as surname in case of birth before marriage.
Have also looked for girls born with second name beginning with E. There is only one and that name on GRO is shown to be Elizabeth.
Help would be great - I'm just looking for her birth record. Must be there! I'm currently wondering about whether she was adopted within the family.
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Parents marriage
Marriage Jun qtr 1900
Allen Henry
Reed Cecilia
Southampton 2c 79
Her sisters birth
ALLEN, ANNIE CECILIA mmn REID
GRO Reference: 1901 Sept Quarter in SOUTHAMPTON Volume 02C Page 40
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Emily Allen
Registration Date 1900 - Quarter of the Year Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Place Southampton, Hampshire, England
Volume 2c Page 7
Sorry you discounted that one. :-\
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Parents marriage
Marriage Jun qtr 1900
Allen Henry
Reed Cecilia
Southampton 2c 79
Her sisters birth
ALLEN, ANNIE CECILIA mmn REID
GRO Reference: 1901 Sept Quarter in SOUTHAMPTON Volume 02C Page 40
Yes this is all correct, I have this info on the family. Thank you :)
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Emily Allen
Registration Date 1900 - Quarter of the Year Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Place Southampton, Hampshire, England
Volume 2c Page 7
Sorry you discounted that one. :-\
Yep, MMN BILES
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Could the 1911 census have her age wrong ???
Births Dec 1898
Allen Emily Southampton 2c 11
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Parents marriage
Marriage Jun qtr 1900
Allen Henry
Reed Cecilia
Southampton 2c 79
Her sisters birth
ALLEN, ANNIE CECILIA mmn REID
GRO Reference: 1901 Sept Quarter in SOUTHAMPTON Volume 02C Page 40
Yes this is all correct, I have this info on the family. Thank you :)
I posted that as we had no idea as to when the parents married or which part of 1901 her sister was born. With the parents marrying in 1900 there is the possibility that she could have been born before the marriage.
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Could the 1911 census have her age wrong ???
Births Dec 1898
Allen Emily Southampton 2c 11
Unfortunately there is a death that might match
Emily Allen
Age 0 -Estimated Birth Year abt 1898
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec Southampton, Hampshire.
Death Date Dec 1898 Hampshire.
Volume 2c Page 10
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Where is Cecilia in 1901
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William Allen + Nellie Biles, March qtr 1895, Southampton.
The other Emily is not with them in 1901?
Other children with Nellie in 1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFS-6GW
Youngest is Daisy, 1
Birth registered only two quarters before Emily.
ALLEN, DAISY
Mother's Maiden Surname: BILES
GRO Reference: 1900 J Quarter in SOUTHAMPTON Volume 02C Page 1
In 1911 William and Nellie actually have a 4 year old Emily!
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWQJ-D14
ALLEN, EMILY
Mother's Maiden Surname: BILLS
GRO Reference: 1906 S Quarter in SOUTHAMPTON Volume 02C Page 17
What happened to Emily no. 1?
Or, seems very unlikely, but could there have been some mix up with the maiden names?
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Where is Cecilia in 1901
With Henry and Emily in Southampton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSFS-6B5
I think Emily is 6 months old (according to ancestry)
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Is this her death you mentioned ???
Deaths Mar 1918
Allen Emily 17 Southampton 2c 74
So DoB should be c 1900/1901
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Where is Cecilia in 1901
Found them . Emily is 6 months old on the 1901 census. Living 6 Mount St, Southampton with both parents
Sorry John I see you found it
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Where is Cecilia in 1901
Found them . Emily is 6 months old on the 1901 census
Emily Allen
Registration Date 1900 - Quarter of the Year Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Place Southampton, Hampshire, England
Volume 2c Page 7
Sorry you discounted that one. :-\
The age would fit nicely with that record (wonder, could the maiden name is wrong !!) -Biles
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Hi all, thanks for the help and ideas so far.
There are multiple births to ALLEN in Soton with MMN of BILES throughout the period in which Wm ALLEN and Cecilia REED/REID were having children. Two separate families.
She was the eldest daughter.
1898 birth of Emily located by gc1 cannot be correct as that child died the same year.
1901: Emily age 6m was with her parents Cecilia and Henry Allen, scaler, All Saints, Soton. This is the correct family.
So if she was 6m on 1901 census which was 31 March 1901, she must have been born abt Oct 1900
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Is this her death you mentioned ???
Deaths Mar 1918
Allen Emily 17 Southampton 2c 74
So DoB should be c 1900/1901
Yes that's the death record. I have the physical cert. Influenza. States correct witnesses for it to be her mother with re-married surname.
But I'd like to locate her birth record. Unusual during this time not to have one at all.
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Harry Allen has a mother MMN Biles ??
Henry Allen Birth Date 10 févr. 1882 (10 Feb 1882)
Birth Place Southampton, Hampshire, England, United Kingdom
Marriage Date 1900 Gosport, Hampshire, England, United Kingdom
Death Date 15 avr. 1912 (15 Apr 1912)
Death Place Naufrage du Titanic (41°43'43.94 N 49°56'48.49 W), France
Father William Allen
Mother Clara Biles
Spouse Cecilia Reid
Child
Alfred James Allen
Annie Cecilia Allen
Charles Edward Allen
Clara Elizabeth Allen
Eliza Allen
Emily Allen
William Henry Allen
Sandra
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https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-victim/henry-allen.html
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1911 census H M Prison, Romsey Road, Winchester.
Henry Allen 29 Prisoner. (occuption was mariner) married.
Sandra
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Southampton Times and Hampshire Express
Southampton, Hampshire,
Sat, 15 Oct 1910
Page 12
https://www.newspapers.com/article/southampton-times-and-hampshire-express/167972529/
Sandra
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https://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-victim/henry-allen.html
Yes correct person for the father of Emily BUT there are several errors with that family on that source.
Do you think that the Emily ALLEN that I seek the birth record for could actually be the daughter of William ALLEN b. 1847 and his wife Clara BILES b.1855 - but was brought up as the daughter of William ALLEN junior (b.1881) and Cecilia REID? ie she was a sister of William ALLEN junior?? :o
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Clara Biles was a widow on the 1901 census so perhaps that's why her son brought up the other Emily.
1901 census Southampton Hampshire.
Samuel T Roberson 42 Head
Clara Allen 48 Visitor. Widow.
Emily Allen 14 Daughter
So in answer to your question that is what I am starting to believe.
Sandra
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Thanks Sandra. As I said in my OP, I suspected an informal adoption within the family, and it seems this is exactly what we have.
I appreciate your help, and everyone elses on this.
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Southampton Times and Hampshire Express
Southampton, Hampshire
Sat, 24 Sept 1898
Page 8
https://www.newspapers.com/article/southampton-times-and-hampshire-express/167974549/
Southampton Times and Hampshire Express
Southampton, Hampshire
Sat, 17 Sept 1898
Page 6
https://www.newspapers.com/article/southampton-times-and-hampshire-express/167974702/
Sandra
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Southampton Times and Hampshire Express
Southampton, Hampshire
Sat, 24 Sept 1898
Page 8
https://www.newspapers.com/article/southampton-times-and-hampshire-express/167974549/
Southampton Times and Hampshire Express
Southampton, Hampshire
Sat, 17 Sept 1898
Page 6
https://www.newspapers.com/article/southampton-times-and-hampshire-express/167974702/
Sandra
Dreadful. This would all explain the informal adoption. Thank you for your help again. I think I have what I need for this girl.
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Are you tempted to get the digital image of her birth for just £3 to make sure? ;D
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Further to reply 23 - a fuller account on reappearance
Southern Daily Echo
Southampton, Hampshire
Mon, 19 Sept 1898
Page 2
https://www.newspapers.com/article/southern-daily-echo/167977153/
Sandra
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Are you tempted to get the digital image of her birth for just £3 to make sure? ;D
yes, albeit that the GRO has had too much of my hard earned money recently ;D