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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: wdytya on Thursday 13 March 25 17:11 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for the birth/baptism records for a Margaret Hopkins. The 1861 census has her living with her grandparents and born in Welsh St Donats Glamorgan. I have found her marriage record which shows her father as John Hopkins. 1881 census has her living with John Hopkins at Lower Cosmeston farm. I cannot find any record of a marriage for John Hopkins or a mother for Margaret. When searching the "Free BMD" records there is no Margaret Hopkins for the approximate d.o.b.
1851 not shown on census record for the Hopkins family. 1861 aged 11, 1871 aged 22, 1881 aged 23?
If Margarets parents were not married would the birth registration for Margaret be recorded under her mothers name and not that of Hopkins her father?
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The 1861 census has her living with her grandparents and born in Welsh St Donats Glamorgan.
Could you please give the full details of this census
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1851 has a Margaret HOPKIN age 2 living in Welsh St Donatts with Charlotte and Ann David. She is listed as Illegitimate daur of another person
ADDED in case they are relevant
Next door are a Thomas Hopkin 69, Mary Hopkin 65, Elvira Hopkin 29 plus 2 grandaughters
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1861 4076 /32/5
The family are HOPKIN - grandparents are Thomas and Mary with other children so that looks good Rosie.
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Rosie.... Many thanks for your reply and the information you have found. I am unsure if the Thomas Hopkin family living next door is the correct family as the 1851 census record I have is them living at the Lodge, Welsh St Donats,
As Margaret is living with Charlotte and Ann David is one of them the mother? Is Margaret recorded with the surname Hopkins or no name or David.
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Margaret is Hopkin, Charlotte and Ann are David. The census state that she is the illegitimate daughter of another person. There is another child on the page, not related to your query but they have a similar comment against them. It is as though they are possibly being fostered.
I would not assume that her father is John Hopkin just because she names him when she marries.
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As Margaret is living with Charlotte and Ann David is one of them the mother? Is Margaret recorded with the surname Hopkins or no name or David.
No, as Rosie99 has stated above, she's listed as illegitimate daughter of another person
Not sure if there's a connection, but a John Hopkin, illegitimate son of John Hopkin, farmer, and Ann Morgan, is baptised in Welsh St Donats in 1853
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1851 - Warren Mill
Christopher Morgan 86 Head
Margret Morgan 60 wife
Richard Morgan 29 son
Ann Morgan 27 Daughter
The addresses in the baptism of John Hopkin in 1853 are Lodge and Warren Mill
Might be a leap, but Ann's mother's name is interesting?
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In addition, Margaret Morgan's maiden name is David
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1851 has a Margaret HOPKIN age 2 living in Welsh St Donatts with Charlotte and Ann David. She is listed as Illegitimate daur of another person
ADDED in case they are relevant
Next door are a Thomas Hopkin 69, Mary Hopkin 65, Elvira Hopkin 29 plus 2 grandaughters
I have a 1851 census record for a Thomas Hopkin aged 61 wife Mary 54 John 25 Catherine 23 James 20 Jane 17 Thomas 13 Ann 12 Thomas 3 Grandson living at the Lodge Welsh St Donats.
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Margaret is Hopkin, Charlotte and Ann are David. The census state that she is the illegitimate daughter of another person. There is another child on the page, not related to your query but they have a similar comment against them. It is as though they are possibly being fostered.
I would not assume that her father is John Hopkin just because she names him when she marries.
1881 census has Margaret living at Lower Cosmeston farm shown as Daughter, the head of the family is John Hopkins
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I will try to find a Baptism record for Margaret as with a bit of luck it will have the mothers name recorded.
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HOPKIN, MARGARET MORGAN
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in OF BRIDGEND AND COWBRIDGE Volume 26 Page 389
HOPKIN, MARGARET THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in OF BRIDGEND AND COWBRIDGE Volume 26 Page 398
HOPKIN, MARGARET EVANS
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in OF BRIDGEND AND COWBRIDGE Volume 26 Page 391
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HOPKIN, MARGARET THOMAS
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in OF BRIDGEND AND COWBRIDGE Volume 2
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Name Margaret Hopkin
Sex Female
Age 11 years
Birth Year (Estimated) 1850
Birthplace Welsh St Donats, Glamorganshire
Residence Place Village
Relationship to Head of Household Granddaughter
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place Penllyn, Glamorgan, Wales, United Kingdom
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Residence Place Village
Relationship to Head of Household Granddaughter
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place Penllyn, Glamorgan, Wales, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Penllyn, Glamorganshire, Wales
Registration District Bridgend
Household Identifier 4407826
Line Number 10
Page Number 5
Piece/Folio 4076 / 32
Registration Number RG09
Other People on This Record
Open All
Thomas Hopkin
M
72 years
..., Glamorganshire
Thomas Hopkin person details
Name Thomas Hopkin
Sex Male
Age 72 years
Birth Year (Estimated) 1789
Birthplace ..., Glamorganshire
Residence Place Village
Marital Status Married
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place Penllyn, Glamorgan, Wales, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original) Penllyn, Glamorganshire, Wales
Registration District Bridgend
Household Identifier 4407826
Line Number 10
Page Number 5
Piece/Folio 4076 / 32
Registration Number RG09
Mary Hopkin
F
60 years
Ystradowen, Glamorganshire
John Hopkin
M
32 years
Llanblethian, Glamorganshire
James Hopkin
M
28 years
Welsh St Donats, Glamorganshire
Jane Hopkin
F
26 years
Welsh St Donats, Glamorganshire
Ann Hopkin
F
21 years
Welsh St Donats, Glamorganshire
David Frederick
M
14 years
Penlline, Glamor
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Thank you Heddwch for the information you have listed.
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Mabel has found the following......Not sure if there's a connection, but a John Hopkin, illegitimate son of John Hopkin, farmer, and Ann Morgan, is baptised in Welsh St Donats in 1853
I believe this is the second illegitimate child of John Hopkin and Ann Morgan. The problem is I cannot find him on the 1861,71,81 census records or a death or burial record on Ancestry I enter his birth date as 1853 at Welsh st Donats but no records are found. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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I'm not sure what happens to him either. Ann Morgan is a servant on 1861 & 1871, not marrying until 1874. No sign of him with her. I haven't found her mother Margaret on 1861 to see if he's there
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I am looking for the birth/baptism records for a Margaret Hopkins. The 1861 census has her living with her grandparents and born in Welsh St Donats Glamorgan. I have found her marriage record which shows her father as John Hopkins. 1881 census has her living with John Hopkins at Lower Cosmeston farm. I cannot find any record of a marriage for John Hopkins or a mother for Margaret. When searching the "Free BMD" records there is no Margaret Hopkins for the approximate d.o.b.
1851 not shown on census record for the Hopkins family. 1861 aged 11, 1871 aged 22, 1881 aged 23?
If Margarets parents were not married would the birth registration for Margaret be recorded under her mothers name and not that of Hopkins her father?
Welsh St Donats registration comes under Cardiff
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/cardiff.html
Children would be very likely registered under Morgan, as parents unmarried. John Hopkin would need to be present at registration to give any details of father, and them accepted. Unless he himself registered.
There are possible Cardiff birth registrations for both children under Morgan with no mother's maiden on GRO.
Cas
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I'm not sure what happens to him either. Ann Morgan is a servant on 1861 & 1871, not marrying until 1874. No sign of him with her. I haven't found her mother Margaret on 1861 to see if he's there
Is there a copy of the marriage for Ann Morgan on Ancestry, if so what parish/district.county? and is she at Welsh St Donats on the 1861 and 1871 census
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1861 in Llantrithyd , a boarder with John Morgan (farmer) and his family
Piece 4041, folio 131, p3
1871 again in Llantrithyd, servant in the household of Llewelyn Thomas
Piece 5372, folio 22, p 20
Marriage is on Ancestry
Ann Morgan, full age, spinster, Llantrithyd
Father Christopher Morgan, farmer
William John, full age, widower, farmer, Llancarfan
Father Henry Morgan, labourer
Marriage 7 May 1874 Llantrithyd,
Witnesses John Morgan, Margaret Morgan
He made his mark, she signed
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Morgan and David Family connection.
After many hours of searching on Ancestry at the local records office and the library I have failed to find a connection between the Morgan and David families living in Llantrithyd and Welsh St Donats Glamorgan.
Ann Morgan born 1824 had two illegitimate children with a John Hopkins, Margaret 1849 and John 1853 both Welsh St Donats
Ann on the 1841 census in living with her parents Christopher and Margaret at Llantrithyd in Glamorgan and in 1851 again with her parents this time living at Welsh St Donats.
Whilst on the 1851 census Ann is still at the home of her parents Christopher and Margaret but her children Margaret is not with her.
On the 1851 census Margaret is at the home of a Charlotte David and her daughter Jane in Welsh St Donats. The question is why is she not with her mother Ann Morgan?
Charlotte David married a Lewis David in 1819 and on the 1841 census are at Welsh St Donats.
Charlotte’s maiden name is Morgan whilst Ann Morgan’s mother, Margaret, maiden name is David.
So is Charlotte Morgan related someway to Christopher Morgan and is Margaret David related to Lewis David?
I have failed to find any connections.
Also no sign of Ann’s son John after his baptism in 1853.
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Hi
It could be a finacial relationship in that as the mother had to work then the David's were acting as foster parents to the child. This was quite a common occurrence in those times, there are some horror stories where the foster or nurse child were murdered or badly treated but I assume, hopefully, that most of these relationships worked. They were called nurse children from the premise that the woman looking after them was a wet nurse but these children stayed with the foster family for many years.
In 1850, "nurse-children" referred to infants placed in the care of someone other than their parents, often due to economic necessity or the shame of illegitimacy, with women who took care of them known as "nurses" or "wet nurses".
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=772027.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=772027.0)
Nesta