RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Croy Girl on Thursday 13 March 25 14:08 GMT (UK)
-
Hi .
I got a hint on ancestry about my GGGreatgrandparents Philip Graham and Elizabeth Mcmahon both Irish born 1815 .Married 1837 in Lanarkshire Scotland.
From what I know they were RC.
So i was surprised to see there record been on Church of Scotland on ancestry.
So I checked out My side in Airdrie who I
know were Church of Scotland and they are on this register .
Marguerite.
-
Not sure if this is them ???
Both names seem correct and location but as its in 1840 not 1837 ???
Name Philip Graham
Sex Male
Spouse's Name Elisabeth McMahon
Spouse's Sex Female
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Oct 1840
Event Place New Monkland, Lanarkshire, Scotland, United Kingdom
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT1W-LYW?lang=en
-
Hi
Yes that's them.
So does that mean they married in Church of Scotland and not RC Church.
Marguerite
-
I am not sure but below is the website of the church in the record and does seem to Church of Scotland
New Monkland and Greengairs Parish Churches.
http://www.newmonklandandgreengairs.org.uk/
-
There is this but again this is not the church listed in the records. Sorry
Parish history: Catholic Church in the Monklands
https://stjamescoatbridge.co.uk/2024/04/17/parish-history-catholic-church-in-the-monklands/
-
Hi.
Thanks for reply.
I need to look into this.
I've researched for 20 years and just thought my Graham's were Catholic .My GGreatgrandfather John Graham their son married Betsy Smith from Airdrie who was church of Scotland but my dad's gran was brought up Catholic My dad's gran also Married someone who was church of Scotland. But again my Gran was RC.
Marguerite
-
So does that mean they married in Church of Scotland and not RC Church?
Not necessarily.
The wedding probably didn't take place in a church building at all. It was customary for the wedding to be held in the bride's parents' home or, if she had no parents or was married a long way from home, in her employer's home or in the parish manse.
Officially the Church of Scotland was supposed to keep a record of all baptisms and marriages irrespective of the participants' actual denomination or the variety of clergyman who performed the ceremony.
In practice, this didn't happen. In some parishes the clerk didn't even manage to keep a proper record of the baptisms and marriage in the C of S, never mind other churches. Especially in populous urban parishes or very large rural parishes, the clerk usually wouldn't know about baptisms or marriages of RCs, or Episcopalians, Congregationals, Baptists, or parishioners of other dissenting denominations or non-Christian religions unless they came and told him.
185 years after the event, and in New Monkland, it's not going to be possible to find out from the records exactly where the wedding was held or which clergyman officiated.
As for disparity in records, if Ancestry (or MyHeritage, or FamilySearch, or FindMyPast, some other commercial web site) says one thing and the original document at Scotland's People says something different, go for the original. Your 'hint' could be a mistranscription of the original, or a guess or assumption by someone who hasn't found the original, or a figment of someone's imagination.
See also https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0
-
Thank you Forfarian.
I was actually thinking myself that it's been just taken for granted on Ancestry hint that they were married in Church of Scotland.
I know for sure they were both RC.
Marguerite.
-
Well, as Ancestry got the year wrong, its hint is hardly worth the paper it isn't written on, is it?
Just because a marriage is recorded in the C of S register doesn't always necessarily mean that it was performed by a C of S clergyman.
Normally I'd say take a look at the original document at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, but unfortunately the New Monkland marriage records in the first half of the 19th century are singularly uninformative, so it's probably not worth it.
-
Definitely married in New Monkland in 1840, according to the Scotlandspeople index.
I have come across quite a few instances of Catholic marriages being recorded in the Church of Scotland parish records and I have to wonder if couples were encouraged to register with the "Established" parish church for reasons of legality? A check of the original entry in the New Monkland register should clear this up.
St Margaret's Catholic Parish, the "mother" parish of Lanarkshire, was founded in 1836. I have seen early records for St Margaret's, so they do exist.
If they wanted to be married by a Catholic clergyman then it would have been obligatory for them to have been married at the altar rails in the church, unless one or the other of them were not of the Catholic faith.
-
Hi Lodger.
Yes it was 1840.It was me that got date wrong .
I've got a copy of the marriage record.
It says both parish of Clarkstone.
My dad's gran Janet Graham was baptisted St Margaret's 1863.Philip and Elizabeth were her grandparents. Elizabeth died 1860 and Is buried in St Joseph's Airdrie.
The family all moved to Smeeston Rows Croy about 1868.
I will try St Margaret's records see if there's anything .
Marguerite.
-
Hi,
If my Deeside relatives are anything to go by it is entirely possible that they were married in the Church of Scotland and were privately Catholic.
The Roman Catholic records on Deeside are some of the earliest in Scotland.
However I have members of the family who are all recorded in the Parish records before heading to Canada before becoming Catholic nuns.
I think we underestimate the pressure to conform in order to get on at the time.
As an example Catholics were not allowed to attend Cambridge University until late in the century.
Things were obviously changing in the 1840’s in the area, so it is entirely possible that they decided they could be openly Catholic, for their children.
-
Hi.
I have looked through the RC church names and dates on Scotlands People given dates church started registers. Most are after 1840.St Margaret's Airdrie is 1841.
So it must have been Church of Scotland their Banns were put up in .
I see someone else is asking same question wanting to know name of Church.
Only way to find our is to Contact Scotlands people and ask them what Church the record came from .
Marguerite.
-
Only way to find our is to Contact Scotlands people and ask them what Church the record came from
It's New Monkland Parish Kirk. Church of Scotland.
-
Hi
Thanks .How did you know.
Marguerite
-
I've looked at it many times.
-
3 surviving RC baptism records for their children in St Margaret's, Airdrie