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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Clemans on Wednesday 12 March 25 23:38 GMT (UK)

Title: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: Clemans on Wednesday 12 March 25 23:38 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help?

I am trying to find the ship that brought my Great great grandfather John McKenna to Melbourne in the 1880's or 1890's.

John was born in Seltannaveeny (Arigna) Co. Roscommon Ireland in 1863.

He was a member of the Royal Irish Constabulary from 1882 to 1886 - he resigned "to emigrate".

John emigrated to Australia.

John was married in Melbourne to Alice Darcy in 1892.

So - emigration is somewhere between 1886 and 1892.

John's brothers Terrence and James emigrated to Melbourne in 1878 and 1887 respectively.

Thanks

Clemans
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 13 March 25 02:22 GMT (UK)
Government Assisted Immigration to Victoria officially ended in 1883.

So it would appear that he would need to pay his full fare or perhaps have assistance from his brothers .

I would suggest that if he left his employment he would have departed shortly after that.

Unassisted immigrants to Victoria can be searched here.
There are many named  J* M*kenna.

Click the ship name on any of interest and then patiently scroll the passenger list to locate further details of the passenger.

https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/passenger-records-and-immigration

Sue
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: Clemans on Thursday 13 March 25 02:37 GMT (UK)
Sue,

Thanks for the advice, I should have said that I have already been down that track but can't find him.
Found his brothers but not John.

I agree with your suggestion re timing, his brother Terence similarly appears to have left the RIC in October 1882 and was on the OSS Orient bound for Melbourne a matter of days later.

So closer to 1886 than 1892?

Thanks
Clemans
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: shume on Saturday 15 March 25 01:10 GMT (UK)
I spent some time tracing John McKenna and believe he was a warder/ chief warder at Pentridge Gaol, living in Coburg with wife Alice and family. The relevance of this is that the Vic Police Gazette has an entry for a John McKenna arrested Coburg Police Station April 1888, discharged 15/5/1888 for obscene language. Born Ireland, labourer.
Whilst this is not definite proof of the correct person, it could mean that he was in Victoria in 1888 which might help to narrow down his arrival. Can't find him at this stage though.
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: LoganH on Saturday 15 March 25 03:26 GMT (UK)
Both his brothers lived in Melbourne.

Terrence MCKENNA passed away in Nazareth House, East Camberwell at 81 years (April 11th 1940). Late Victorian Police. (Requiescat in pace).

James MCKENNA passed away Fitzroy, Nicholson street. (23rd Sept 1950). Tribute from St Patrick's Benefit Society, Branch no. 1. 
Both from Roscommon, Ireland).

Two being a Constable or Policeman. (still searching his arrival)
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: judb on Saturday 15 March 25 05:16 GMT (UK)
You may already have these - no help with John though.

 from TROVE
Probate notice for Terence McKenna, gentleman
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/11306933

from PROV wills
https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates
Terence's will is digitised and beneficiaries are: 500 pounds to St Patrick's cathedral, 500 pounds to the Blessed Sacrament Fathers of Lonsdale St, Melbourne, the residue in trust for the Mother Superior to use for Nazareth House.

https://prov.vic.gov.au/explore-collection/explore-topic/wills-and-probates
As far as I can see James' will can be accessed if you log in to PROV.  His index entry shows:
James McKenna; Residence : Fitzroy; Occupation : X Public Servant;

There are a number of death/funeral notices for James.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/22908617
McKENNA- On September 23, at his residence, 362 Nicholson Street, Fitzroy, James McKenna, dearly loved husband of Susan and loving father of Mary, John, Vincent, Francis, Basil, Monica (deceased), James, Philomena (deceased) and Cyril, aged 84 years. Formerly of Malmsbury and Devenish  Requiescat in pace. 
There are grandchildren listed in other death notices alongside this one.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/279700605
Funeralnotice - buried at Brighton Cemetery.

Judith
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: Clemans on Tuesday 18 March 25 00:20 GMT (UK)
shume,

You are indeed following the same John McKenna.
The records I have show that at the time of John’s marriage to Alice Darcy in 1892, his occupation was listed as warder and his usual residence as Carlton.
John’s daughter Margret Gertrude (known in the family as Aunty Gertie and as Sr Mary Julianna to her fellow nuns) recorded in a memoir, that at the time her elder brother James was born in 1893, the family lived in Brighton and that her father rode a bicycle to Coburg to work at Pentridge jail.  She recorded that the family moved several times to Carlton, Brunswick and three addresses in Coburg – Sydney Road, Nelson Street and ultimately Waterford Street.  She does not record the dates of each move.
The 1915 Sands and McDougall's Directory of Victoria, has John living at 18 Nelson Street, Coburg.  At his death in 1956 he was living at 50 Waterford Street in Coburg.

Obscene language is a trait I have personally observed in the family, so that could be him!

I think I need to trace his start date at Pentridge to see if it is likely that he is in or around Coburg in 1888.

Thanks for the lead.

Clemans


Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: Clemans on Saturday 22 March 25 04:13 GMT (UK)
An update,

I now have John McKenna as a Pentridge prison warder from 11th July 1887, so very unlikely to be the same fellow in Castlemaine prison for obscene language in 1888.

Emigration must have occurred between 31st October 1886 (resignation from the Royal Irish Constabulary) and 11th July 1887 (appointment as a warden at Pentridge, Victoria).

Just cant find him in the passenger lists!

Clemans
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: Clemans on Tuesday 25 March 25 03:09 GMT (UK)
Correction.

Apparently there were two prison warders named John McKenna at Pentridge in the 1880s.

My John McKenna joined the Victorian penal service 15th October 1888.
Can be sure of the right one as the prison record refers to his Irish birth in 1863 and service with the RIC.  Other candidate was born in South Melbourne in 1865.

Clemans
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 25 March 25 03:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Clemans
You need to post the sources and dates of your information. ;D
Sue
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: Clemans on Tuesday 25 March 25 04:49 GMT (UK)
Sue,

John’s baptism:

The parish register at Kilronan, Co. Roscommon, Ireland records the baptism of John McKenna.

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632368?locale=en#page/1/mode/1up

Page 161 has the baptism of Johannes son of Jacobus McCanna and Maria Kelly on 30th April 1863, residence is Seltannaveeny, Co. Roscommon, Ireland.  Translated we have, John son of James McKenna and Mary Kelly.  McKennas are known to have resided in the very small townland of Seltannaveeny (my Grandfather visited them in 1917), the local village is Arigna, and the local parish was Kilronan.

John’s service with the Royal Irish Constabulary:

Record 50007 (I looked this up in the local library so don’t have a link). 
McKenna, Jno. 19 years old from Co. Roscommon, a laborer.  Start date 16th August 1882, finish date 31st October 1886 (4 years and 2 months service).  Resigned to emigrate.

John’s service with the Victorian Penal Service:

https://prov.vic.gov.au/archive/D8F4CED7-F3C5-11E9-AE98-FF93A9D0CEAE?image=159

Page 159, Folio 135.  Joined the service 15th October 1888, a prison warder and last appointment was Deputy Governor at Pentridge.  Birth date is not correct but the document records birth in Ireland, and 4 years and 2 months service with the Royal Irish Constabulary (same as his RIC record).   His role as Deputy Governor is known in the family.

Folio 129 of the same document records the penal service of different John McKenna, born in South Melbourne in 1865.

John’s marriage:

https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/efamily-history/67cd280979fdb513ef2eab0f/record/5c6552964aba80ac310ba721?q=efamily&givenName=Alice&familyName=DARCY

The Victorian registry of births, deaths and marriages records John’s marriage to Alice Darcy on 12th October 1892 at Oakleigh, Melbourne, Victoria.  The document (which I have purchased) records that John is a warder, aged 28 years and was born in Kilronan, Co. Roscommon, Ireland to parents James McKenna and Mary Kelly.

Clemans
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 25 March 25 05:58 GMT (UK)
Hi
I agree that the file recording John McKENNA with previous Irish constabulary employment is likely the right man.

There is an address for a man of the name in 1895.
Vic Rates Book
https://www.ancestry.com.au/search/collections/60706/?srsltid=AfmBOopazgbkTE8n34Pzi0bYPBUrZBD0vCSRl3r3aCMsbKNu6ZUCTl8y

McKENNA, John. occ Overseer. Property owner is Wm HEALY
A wood House on land on the South side of Geake Street Coburg.

Sue 
Title: Re: John McKenna emigration to Melbourne
Post by: Clemans on Tuesday 25 March 25 08:25 GMT (UK)
Sue,

The "other" John McKenna (John Francis McKenna) is recorded in his prison record as "Overseer of Tailors".

He also pops up in an article in the Argus newspaper dated 20th August 1920 a witness to an enquiry.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4589092

I suspect the man at Geake Street is the "other" John McKenna.

He worked at Pentridge so Coburg is logical, Geake Street is not one remembered by my great aunt in her memoir.

Clemans