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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: JosiahS on Wednesday 12 March 25 19:38 GMT (UK)

Title: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: JosiahS on Wednesday 12 March 25 19:38 GMT (UK)
Hello there

My ancestor, Wilson Orwin, died at sea 4 Jul 1858.

Looking at his final seaman's ticket record - the one which records the death - I can see that he was master of the C Morrison (I presume the Catherine Morrison registered in South Shields, as Wilson lived in Sunderland) and that the ship left on 24 May 1858 and returned 27 Jan 1859. 

There are numbers above which are 14.793, but I don't know what they refer to.

I'm just interested to know where in the world Wilson may have been buried, and if I can learn the route they were trading on it will give me an idea

Many thanks!
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 12 March 25 20:13 GMT (UK)
Morrisons
Official Number 14793
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vesselsnum?officialnumber=14793
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 12 March 25 20:18 GMT (UK)
BT 124 entry for Wilson Orwin, Certificate 44820
Source: BT 124/7
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01tp6/
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 12 March 25 20:26 GMT (UK)
You could try following his vessel via the newspapers.
Still getting the name Orwin in potential hits at the end of 1858

Newcastle Courant, 24 December 1858
Marine Intelligence
North Shields
The Morrison, Orwin, and a large fleet of Tyne vessels, homeward bound, cleared at Constantinople on the 8th
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: fiddlerslass on Wednesday 12 March 25 20:28 GMT (UK)
From Lloyd's Shipping register 1858, the Morrisons went to the Mediterranean. Newspaper reports may show where exactly it went. There are a few possibilities in the British Newspaper library but I don't have a subscription

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=MZhXEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA279&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=2#v=onepage&q=orwin&f=false
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 12 March 25 20:31 GMT (UK)
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/abbreviations-merchant-seamens-records/

Newspapers, as advised, are a wonderful resource to track voyages.
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 12 March 25 20:39 GMT (UK)
Wow!
A crew list / agreement for "Morrisons" 14793. But not the fateful voyage.
Master Wilson Orwin, 46, born Sunderland
Date of Departure 15th May 57
Date of Arrival 31st May 58
Just a few images
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1H-1XGQ
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 12 March 25 21:03 GMT (UK)
A raft of them here (starting again from previous image)
Andrew Todd now the new Master of Morrisons in 1859
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1H-1XGQ

Then we do have that fateful voyage
Morrisons, departed Shields 18 June 58
Name of Master Wilson Orwin, John Orwin.
So that explains the Dec 1858 Orwin reference in the Courant, John must have taken over from Wilson.
It says that Wilson died At Sea, Died of Cold
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSBJ-J36S-W

Then a form for births, deaths, marriages, but it's blank!
Next one
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSBJ-J36S-B
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 12 March 25 21:24 GMT (UK)
You could try following his vessel via the newspapers.

i.e. Lloyd's List, 25 June 1858, 19 August 1858
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: coombs on Wednesday 12 March 25 21:39 GMT (UK)
Also you can the Shipping and Mercantile Gazette on FindMyPast and British Newspaper Archives.

https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: Drosybont on Wednesday 12 March 25 21:58 GMT (UK)
Following the third link in jonwarrn's post above, the agreement for the voyage says the voyage was to Theodosia (Feodosiya on the Crimean coast of the Black Sea), and if required, to other places in the Black Sea or Sea of Azoff (Azov).  There are some pages from the ship's log book, one showing the entry for Wilson Orwin's death, which occurred after 10 day's illness.  It gives the latitude and longitude of the ship at the time.

Drosybont
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 12 March 25 22:03 GMT (UK)
Well found, Drosybont!
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: Drosybont on Wednesday 12 March 25 22:20 GMT (UK)
Thanks.  The Newcastle Journal 19 June 1858 says Morrisons was carrying "163 chs coals, Clementson and Co".  "Chs" would be chaldrons.  A measure of volume, not weight.  A Newcastle chaldron contained approximately 53 hundredweight of coal.

Drosybont
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: Drosybont on Wednesday 12 March 25 22:32 GMT (UK)
The Shields Gazette 24 June 1858 says Morrisons sailed 17 June for Barcelona. 

Drosybont

Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: Drosybont on Wednesday 12 March 25 22:37 GMT (UK)
From the latitude and longitude by the ship's log entry for the death, I think Morrisons was off the coast of Portugal at the time, west of Lisbon.

Drosybont
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: jonwarrn on Wednesday 12 March 25 22:55 GMT (UK)
I didn't dare ask about the latitude and longitude!
Good grief, Drosybont, you have excelled yourself! Excellent finds and research.
John
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: Drosybont on Wednesday 12 March 25 23:15 GMT (UK)
Kind of you to say that, but I wasn't getting anywhere until you provided the Familysearch links.  I didn't know they had shipping records.

Drosybont
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: JosiahS on Thursday 13 March 25 15:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone for all the fantastic information and links!  Brilliant stuff!

I think I'm still being bit behind everyone though - on which document is the latitude and longitude, please??

Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: Drosybont on Thursday 13 March 25 16:53 GMT (UK)
The latitude and longitude at the time of the death are on one of the pages from the ship's Official Log.  It's image 261 of a set of 470 images in FamilySearch Film # 008395641.  This link should go to the correct image:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSBJ-J36S-T?lang=en&i=260

If for some reason it doesn't, the second and third links in jonwarrn's reply number 7 above both link to that film and set of images.   In either case, from the image which comes up, just go to image 261.

Right clicking on google maps displays latitude and longitude, so by trying different positions it is possible to see roughly where the ship was.  South west of Lisbon, not west as I said yesterday. 

Drosybont
Title: Re: Is there a way to know what journey a ship made?
Post by: JosiahS on Thursday 13 March 25 19:14 GMT (UK)
Many thanks again - that is way more information than I had hoped for!