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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: JamesDMcBust on Tuesday 11 March 25 17:56 GMT (UK)

Title: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: JamesDMcBust on Tuesday 11 March 25 17:56 GMT (UK)
Hi
I have a lady in my family tree that I have been searching for on the 1921 census. My closest match is an Elizabeth Annie Rogers living as a domestic servant at Bersham, with couple Issac and Elizabeth Roberts. Family members seem to think this is not her as they say she didn’t go into service, and that she helped one of her brothers in his pub in Wrexham - possibly the Wheatsheaf in Gwersyllt or the New Inn at Cefnybedd.  Elizabeth “Lizzie” Rogers had a great many siblings and half siblings and I’ve tried to find them all in 1921 without finding one running a pub!  Her parents are Daniel Rogers b1847 and Mary Jane Rogers b1867 (second wife of Daniel). Daniel died in 1909.  Can anyone tell me with certainty whether this lady born in Coedpoeth is my family member, and if not where she actually is in 1921?  Thank you for reading this - I look forward to hearing from you.
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 11 March 25 18:48 GMT (UK)
Do you know whether she married & if so - who to & when

Is Coedpoeth in the same area as Gwersyllt
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: JamesDMcBust on Tuesday 11 March 25 18:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Carole
Thanks for responding. Lizzie Rogers married John Thomas Cash b1896 on 1 March 1924 at Gwersyllt.  On Google maps Gwersyllt and Coedpoeth are only four miles apart.
James
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 11 March 25 18:59 GMT (UK)
The entry shows she is living in Bersham - her birthplace on the 1901 census
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: JamesDMcBust on Tuesday 11 March 25 19:33 GMT (UK)
Lizzie’s birthplace on the 1901 and 1911 censuses is given as Summerhill. Her baptism solemnised in the parish of Gwersyllt, abode given as Summerhill.
On the 1921 census, on the image Elizabeth Annie Rogers is shown on the column ‘birthplace and nationality’ as Coedpoeth, Denbighshire. On the transcribed record it shows residential place as Bersham, with residential address Manchester House, Coedpoeth. The birth place is simply given as Denbighshire.
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Tuesday 11 March 25 20:55 GMT (UK)
I think the Elizabeth Annie Rogers in 1921 you list is likely the daughter of David and Catherine Mary Rogers, nee Abram. Born Oct 1897, married Mr Lloyd in 1922.

Your Elizabeth from birth registration (mmn Jones, reg Mar Q 1898) to census and marriage has no middle name Annie, the above daughter does.

There is a possible in Lancashire, a boarder, working as servant to private employer, born Wrexham age 23 + 7mths. With her birthday being last qtr 1897 it would be a possible fit.

Gwersyllt is just over 2 miles from Wrexham. https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Gwersyllt. 

Cas

Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: JamesDMcBust on Wednesday 12 March 25 08:32 GMT (UK)
Cas

Thanks for your thoughts.  I had my doubts about Elizabeth Annie Rogers also because of her middle name Annie, which hadn’t appeared on my lady’s baptism or marriage record.

I’d spotted the entry of a similar named / aged lady in Lancashire, but had dismissed it as it so out of the area (and I’d mentioned this to current family members who were sure she never left North Wales as a young woman).

So I’m left wondering did she actually help out/live in with one of her brothers / brothers-in- law / step-brothers in a pub as the family say?  Or was she simply erroneously omitted from the census?
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 12 March 25 08:52 GMT (UK)
This is the Coedpoeth one.
Name Elizabeth Annie Rogers
Birth Date1897 Baptism Date28 Nov 1897 Baptism Place Minera, Denbighshire,
Father David Morgan Rogers
Mother Catherine Mary Rogers
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 12 March 25 09:32 GMT (UK)
I think the Elizabeth Annie Rogers in 1921 you list is likely the daughter of David and Catherine Mary Rogers, nee Abram. Born Oct 1897, married Mr Lloyd in 1922.

Your Elizabeth from birth registration (mmn Jones, reg Mar Q 1898) to census and marriage has no middle name Annie, the above daughter does.

There is a possible in Lancashire, a boarder, working as servant to private employer, born Wrexham age 23 + 7mths. With her birthday being last qtr 1897 it would be a possible fit.

Gwersyllt is just over 2 miles from Wrexham. https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/DEN/Gwersyllt. 

Cas

The 1921 census has an employer's address,  transcribed as 190 Winder  Road Oldham.
So could be Elizabeth was just lodging there and not working for the head of the house.
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Wednesday 12 March 25 09:38 GMT (UK)
I can only say...The Lancs one is a very good fit for her birthdate counting back from June in 1921. There is one in Dec Q 1897, which is Elizabeth Annie, 1939 has her birthdate Oct 1897. The other is your Elizabeth, in the Mar Q 1898 as within 6 weeks to register.

There is no other of same namesake born around right time, with Wrexham registration.

I am not sure any family researcher can say with certainty what their ancestors did over hundred years ago. It could have been a short spell of work, or something not mentioned.

I know in my own FH research, there are some family stories I can confirm, others not. Also through DNA some skeletons.

Best wishes in your research  :)

Cas

Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: wilcoxon on Wednesday 12 March 25 10:00 GMT (UK)
My Mum and her sister both born in Gwersyllt worked away from home as housekeepers in the 1930, one  in Formby and the other in Neston. I never knew that until the 1939 register.
Incidentally I live in Gwersyllt.
Title: Re: Elizabeth ROGERS born 26 Nov 1897 Summerhill, Gwersyllt, Denbighshire
Post by: JamesDMcBust on Wednesday 12 March 25 10:15 GMT (UK)
Thank you everyone for your thoughts. I think I may need to think outside the box when I hit a brick wall, such as assuming someone wouldn’t go out in service away from their home town. My own 3x great grandmother met/married my gg gf in Dorset - he lived in mid Somerset, she came from Lymington, Hampshire!  That took me many years to discover!